Re: Dealer Pre Delivery Inspection

by Pete Taylor Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:47 pm

Is there some way that legislation compels this thread to be posted on, or linked to, the AS Sales website? Dreadful, absolutely dreadful.

by Aldercow Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:24 pm

I’ve had a lot of Auto-Sleeprs over the years. Starting back in 1982 with a A-S Renault Trafic RV50 solid sided raising roof van. Back then the furniture was sturdily made with doors that fitted precisely into the openings not like now where there fitted on the outside. Everything was finished to a high standard. However things did go wrong sometimes as in 1984 I bought a A-S Renault RCX hightop. On driving part way home I noticed random electrical things happening with lights coming on etc. When home I found the wiring loom smoking underneath van at rear. Being an aircraft electrian I investigated & found when drilling down through van metal floor to install cold water pipe to sink A-S had actually drilled through wiring loom to rear of van. Wet had got in & shorted & melted it all together. I stripped it out & rebuilt part of the loom. Sent A-S then Mr Trevelyan a strong letter & got a cheque back just to cover my materials & no admission that it was their fault. In 2009 I bought a A-S Dorset EL from Marquis- loads of faults - some thought to be so bad that the service centre supposedly showed the management. In 2011 I bought a A-S Warwick Duo - lovely van with no faults at all - still miss that van now. In 2016 I bought a Merc Stanton which in second year ended up with a bad case of damp. So what are my personal conclusions- vans were better made years ago probably by a more dedicated workforce. As times have progressed vehicles have become more complex (electrically) & are put together by lower paid less skilled employees who have probably been brought in off the street, shown how to do an operation & then let free. The problem is poor quality seems endemic across most big manufacturers. It’s us the purchasers who have to go through the pain of getting things put right.

by marconi Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:05 pm

Pete Taylor wrote:Is there some way that legislation compels this thread to be posted on, or linked to, the AS Sales website? Dreadful, absolutely dreadful.

I think you may have a typo there. However I think I know what you are getting at. Company sales sites will only carry good testimonials or fabricated ones.

I often wonder whether these people exist or are on this Forum. Mr & Mrs Blinkworth, Mr & Mrs Rickman, Mrs Bywater, Mr Conway, Mr Sinclair, Mr & Mrs Jones, Mr Wright, Mr & Mrs Woodward, Joan & Anita, Mr & Mrs Newell, Mr Stemmett, Mr Lockie, Mr Wiseman, Mr Lewis, Mr Harper, Mr & Mrs Evans, Mrs Jones, Mr Smith, Mr & Mrs Curtis.

They are 20 owners who appear have said good things about A/S, a small representative number of customers. One seemed to be looking forward to his 2019 Habitation Service with Mr Mark Burdett in September. Apparently he used to answer emails sent to the Service Department. You don't get answers now.

by mikethebike Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:32 pm

I am sure there will at least 20 satisfied owners! allthumbz

Micky

by RCBirmingham Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:43 pm

marconi wrote:
Pete Taylor wrote:Is there some way that legislation compels this thread to be posted on, or linked to, the AS Sales website? Dreadful, absolutely dreadful.

Given I now have a list of some 20 faults on my brand new Broadway FB which, by the service managers own admission, should have been dealt before it left the factory. I have asked why these were not picked up by a quality check, he had no real answer. You almost feel that they just didn't care and forgot that customers give them income to pay for their mortgages, buy cars and go on holidays etc..
The service manager has taken my concerns on board and has flagged the issues with production, but I do wonder if senior management actually know about the quality, or lack of quality and care that happens on the shop floor, it might have been nice for them to actually acknowledge they have fell short.
AS are picking the van up from my home and will have it for a week to do the internal work, then a week over at the paint department, I have said I'll go over to pick it up and will go through my list to make sure they haven't 'overlooked' anything.. the saga continues.

by Gollum Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:55 pm

Aldercow wrote:So what are my personal conclusions- vans were better made years ago probably by a more dedicated workforce. As times have progressed vehicles have become more complex (electrically) & are put together by lower paid less skilled employees who have probably been brought in off the street, shown how to do an operation & then let free. The problem is poor quality seems endemic across most big manufacturers. It’s us the purchasers who have to go through the pain of getting things put right.

Your not far wrong. I worked at the AS factory for 8 years(early 2000s) in the research and development dept. Out on the factory floor there was very much a team atmosphere and pride in what they were producing, sometimes the guys on each stage were checking the work of the previous stage and quality control was very tight. I have recently heard that a lot has changed at the factory and many of the people that I knew then have left, retired or sadly died. When I was there some of the guys I knew had been there since the company started and were true coach builders not as possibly today just trained fitters.

by burlingtonboaby Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:37 pm

Hi Gullum,
Welcome to the forum from misty cool Bridlington,nice to hear from a previous A/S employee.
Boaby

by RCBirmingham Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:35 pm

By way of an update. The following was sent to the head of customer service at Nick Whale Motorhomes this afternoon:

Attila

You may remember back on Monday 27th July you had my van in to replace the faulty control panel (on what was a 3 week old van). Well I'm pleased to say it has worked fine ever since.

I am less pleased to be writing this e-mail as at the time I dropped the van off (and via e-mail before) I highlighted a number of paintwork issues, not least a large crack on the O/S B pillar as well as others. When I picked the van up from you on the 27th July I was told that you would be contacting me shortly to arrange for the paintwork to be sorted. After waiting patiently for 3 weeks I ended up contacting AS direct and have subsequently booked it in myself, they have no record of having heard anything from your-self in respect to this matter, not exactly the high level of customer support I was expecting.

The van was picked up yesterday by AS from my home, as well as the paintwork issues they are also undertaking work on a long 'issues' list including:

1. Paint issues x 4. (Rear Panel, N/S Front Window Surround, O/S B Pillar crack in finish, Rear Panel (tow bar fitment scratch?) + a new one I have found - N/S front roof above passenger - large fleck in the gel coat.

2. Handbrake still 'creaks' when on a hill

3. Extractor fan sometimes requires a 'tap' to get it working when turned on

4. CO2 Alarm (needs replacing as will not turn off)

5. Rubber retainer in sink (to hold glass cover) has come off (screwed in too tight, so has pulled right through the retainer)

6. Whole of the 'kitchen' unit not level, draws out of alignment, overall very poor fit and finish

7. Screw in L/H rear of hob not fixed correctly

8. Scratch / imperfection to the front right of the hob

9. Shelves above bed on N/S - Material not finished / glued down correctly on the underside of the shelves

10. Excessive play in both front door Remis blinds, need to be tightened.

11. Edging to high level front cupboard just behind passenger seat coming loose.

12. Sealant to bottom of shower surround seems to be not done on area to rear of where shower doors fold back, if done, it's not to the same standard of the rest of the shower which also happens to be easier to see / reach.

13. Matting on the step as you enter the van has become unglued from Velcro fixing, needs to be glued down properly / better quality Velcro adhesive needs to be used.

14.The microwave is only sitting on one of the front legs, the other will not wind down and needs something underneath it (like a beer mat) for it to actually be doing what it should (and that's not providing us with a bloody awful rattle when driving)

15.We had a second leisure battery fitted by Nick Whale motorhomes, I have a feeling it has been wired with the positive and negative both coming of the original battery, as far as I am aware, when filing a 2nd leisure battery, you should take the positive from one battery and the negative from the second battery to ensure equal load and draw distribution. I know this is a dealer issue, but can you investigate and put it right please.

16. the rear small skylight over the bathroom, about a ¾ inch crack – skylight needs to be replaced

Whilst I don't expect you to have done anything about the above, some of these problems should have been picked up during a PDI inspection by your-selves, AS have also admitted that the van shouldn't have left the factory with the paintwork issues and the sheer number of problems I have picked up.

Ultimately, as the customer I feel I have been let down by both your-selves and AS, I am the one having to chase things up, book time off work to take the van to yours, wait at home to have the van picked up by AS, not exactly the service I was expecting having spent over £60k on a brand new van.

Yours

Steve Baylis

by jim ralph Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:35 pm

marconi wrote:The 2019 Nuevo is unbelievable.

Too much bad workmanship, so many design faults, not fit for purpose in so many ways. AS do not want to know.

Agree totally Marconi...had numerous faults with my Broadway EK going back twice to the dealer sometimes for the same thing.Sent a letter of complaint to A.S..never had the courtesy of a reply. They couldnt care less it looks like.

by CC Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:27 pm

Reading through this thread although shocking doesn’t really surprise me... The Trouble with Auto Sleepers is it goes right to the top ie the directors & CEO who don’t give a stuff! If they don’t care then what incentive is there for the workforce below them?

With Trigano a multi billion pound international company taking over “the profits“ I don’t expect things to get any better only worse. I’ve seen and personally experienced way too many things at Auto-Sleepers from head office to the service centre, never mind their abysmal Marquis network to have any confidence in any part of them.

Our last dealings with the service centre (since Mark Burdett left) resulted in myself having to rip out & correct the work they carried out & a full refund being given by the service centre. I’ve not, nor do I intend to return to them ever again unless absolutely desperate.

by Bad Penny Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:31 pm

My experience of the Trigano group, when I called at their factory in Spain for help with a warranty problem, was one of absolutely no interest in helping us at all..

We were repeatedly told by three different people, "We build them not repair them" you will have to leave. When I told them if we didn't get help, we would have to cut our holiday short and return home to the UK. Their reply was, "yes you will" They also told me my warranty didn't apply outside the UK.

This conversation took place in a little Spanish, English and finally French. Eventually our persistence paid off and they gave us the name of a local company together with a sketch of how to find them, who could help us.

We explained to the owner of this small company, how the factory wouldn't help us, so he rang them either to give them a few choice words or to order a part, I'm not too sure which. After lunch we returned at the alloted time to find our MH fixed and ready to go. Cost zero, work done under warranty which we expected.

A few euros did change hands, from two very grateful people, who could now continue with the rest of their holiday.

I just hope that AS don't follow the attitude of the Spanish factory under the present Trigano group. Reading some of your complaints, it seems changes are already taking place.

by Ronp Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:16 am

Reading your post, it reminds me of the issues that I experienced when I purchased my Autosleeper. It was delivered with numerus faults ranging from missing furniture fittings, mismatched internal lights, slashed carpets and the battery charger not being turned on.
But the biggest was water leaks from all windows plus the Heiki roof, it went back to marquis seven times, and then to Autosleepers themselves five times. On the last occasion they kept it for two weeks and loaned me an alternative van whilst they repaired it.

The good news is that from year three onwards it has been faultless (apart) from the usual wear and tear issues you would expect.

But what really concerns this is that this all happened in 2005-2007. So, it just goes to show that nothing has changed in fifteen years!

I still have my Gatcombe and although I have often thought of changing it to a new Autosleeper, the thought of going through all this hassle again gives me nightmares.

by modelman Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:11 pm

Gollum, I think what you said re the early 2000s is very encouraging, for my 2003 Amethyst is spot-on, everything works no 'iffy' bits, nothing fell or falling off, dry, & tight & the furniture seems well put together & rattle-free.
A very enjoyable van to own.

by Tinwheeler Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:03 pm

Well, I am very disappointed. I sent a letter by email to Peter Tombs, Customer Services Manager at AS, about the build faults in our Warwick and about the shoddy service at Marquis. There has been no reply from Peter Tombs or anyone connected with quality control.

What Peter did was to forward the email to the manager of the Marquis dealership where we bought it but he's part of the problem, for goodness sake! The manager's reply to us is worthless waffle and a fob off.

Marquis, and probably AS, have lost another customer - not that they give a censored

by Ben001 Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:23 pm

Hi Tinwheeler, really sorry to hear of your bad experience with the new van. Peter Tombs dealt with some problems for me a few weeks ago and the service was nothing short of exceptional. I admit that this did involve bypassing the dealer to some extent. My general perception from reading various threads is that dissatisfaction can, in many cases, be traced back to the dealer, particularly with regard to poor PDI checks and dealer/AS communication. Hope you get things sorted out soon, regards Ben

by Tinwheeler Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:26 pm

Thanks Ben. In our case it was partly AS and partly their retail arm, Marquis.

I'm pretty disgusted, tbh.

by mikethebike Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:18 am

I have read a few of these horror stories in the past.
I always think it is best to write to the MD. Be polite and of course keep copies.
I have in some cases ,but for a Motorhome, put cc like MMM.
It adds some strength to your case ,as adverse publicity is never welcome.

Micky

by rogerblack Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:35 am

In many cases, posting details of the bad experience on a public forum on social media may get a response, as these can be seen by anyone. Best results are often obtained by replying to one of their posts rather than a straight Tweet. If you do, they often try to get you to send details via DM (direct mail) which is not visible to others - I find keeping the posts on the public thread gets better response.

AutoSleepers profile on Twitter states:

"Auto-Sleepers Motorhomes; the Benchmark by which all others are measured, delivering Flagship Motorhomes of Excellence for the Discerning Owner since 1961"

Auto-Sleepers are @ASGMotorhomes
Marquis Leisure are @MarquisLeisure

If I were doing this I'd also be tempted to include the tags for some of the main motorhome magazines, provided you stick to facts that cannot be disputed, as that additional publicity might also add pressure.

Similarly, Facebook might also be worth trying.

by Paulmold Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:04 am

The Facebook AS page is not a two-way communication, there is only a 'contact' button so can't be publicly posted. There are several groups for AS owners and you could post on those but unlikely AS respond on those groups.

As for writing/emailing the MD we know from previous posts that that doesn't work either.

Alan Curry who used to be customer services manager before Peter Tombs, is now quality manager so don't know if he has any dealings now with customers.

Dave Williams Sales Director has been more approachable in the past, he's on FB and LinkedIn.

by Tinwheeler Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:13 pm

Well, I may have been a bit hasty in what I said regarding my disappointment with contacting Peter Tombs. Today, a week after my email, a reply came in the post from him.

Long story short, he seems surprised there was an issue with the fridge flue vent (now sorted with help from Dometic) due to the checks they have in place - hmm. He has offered to look at all the issues at the factory under warranty.

by Paulmold Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:18 pm

Tinwheeler wrote:Well, I may have been a bit hasty in what I said regarding my disappointment with contacting Peter Tombs. Today, a week after my email, a reply came in the post from him.

Long story short, he seems surprised there was an issue with the fridge flue vent (now sorted with help from Dometic) due to the checks they have in place - hmm. He has offered to look at all the issues at the factory under warranty.

Excellent news. Maybe there's a new St.Peter.

by Tinwheeler Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:25 pm

Paulmold wrote:
Tinwheeler wrote:Well, I may have been a bit hasty in what I said regarding my disappointment with contacting Peter Tombs. Today, a week after my email, a reply came in the post from him.

Long story short, he seems surprised there was an issue with the fridge flue vent (now sorted with help from Dometic) due to the checks they have in place - hmm. He has offered to look at all the issues at the factory under warranty.
Excellent news. Maybe there's a new St.Peter.

Maybe

Obviously a trip to Willersey isn't going to be on the cards for a while.

by RCBirmingham Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:35 pm

rogerblack wrote:In many cases, posting details of the bad experience on a public forum on social media may get a response, as these can be seen by anyone. Best results are often obtained by replying to one of their posts rather than a straight Tweet. If you do, they often try to get you to send details via DM (direct mail) which is not visible to others - I find keeping the posts on the public thread gets better response.

AutoSleepers profile on Twitter states:

"Auto-Sleepers Motorhomes; the Benchmark by which all others are measured, delivering Flagship Motorhomes of Excellence for the Discerning Owner since 1961"

Auto-Sleepers are @ASGMotorhomes
Marquis Leisure are @MarquisLeisure

If I were doing this I'd also be tempted to include the tags for some of the main motorhome magazines, provided you stick to facts that cannot be disputed, as that additional publicity might also add pressure.

Similarly, Facebook might also be worth trying.

I did exactly this, every posting by any AS dealer, i was there.. warning prospective customers about the quality issues, every tweet AS did I was there, every instagram, I was there.. Facebook was my friend... it was amazing how good my customer service was in the end.. you just need to be relentless...

by Kemerton-bath Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:16 pm

Very sad that you had to go to such lengths. With a list of defects as long as that which you posted above on 19th August, together with AS's admission that it should never have left the factory in such a state, one wonders why the situation wasn't gripped from the outset by the supply chain. You'd expect them to be embarrassed into action, not just rectifying the defects but also going the extra mile to restore your faith. I wonder if you had to threaten them with a solicitor's letter or whether it was ultimately the power of social media that shamed them into action. Regardless, what a poor reflection on the name behind "Motorhomes of excellence".

I imagine you were focussed solely on getting your new van sorted out and rightly so, but it would be interesting to know if you gained any wider impressions on whether AS are putting measures in place to up their game. Nearly every item on your list of defects is sadly all too familiar to members on this forum, many stretching back over several years, suggesting that there is no learning from experience in the factory. It seems a fact of life that few motorhomes fresh out of production will be free of defects but you'd like to think that the dealer and the factory would be responsive in not only resolving them, but feeding that back into the design and production processes.

Hope you're able to put this bad start behind you and enjoy your van when circumstances allow. When they perform as they're meant to, they are superb vans and enable you to connect with the great outdoors in complete comfort.

Tim

by RCBirmingham Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:34 am

Kemerton-bath wrote:Very sad that you had to go to such lengths. With a list of defects as long as that which you posted above on 19th August, together with AS's admission that it should never have left the factory in such a state, one wonders why the situation wasn't gripped from the outset by the supply chain. You'd expect them to be embarrassed into action, not just rectifying the defects but also going the extra mile to restore your faith. I wonder if you had to threaten them with a solicitor's letter or whether it was ultimately the power of social media that shamed them into action. Regardless, what a poor reflection on the name behind "Motorhomes of excellence".

I imagine you were focussed solely on getting your new van sorted out and rightly so, but it would be interesting to know if you gained any wider impressions on whether AS are putting measures in place to up their game. Nearly every item on your list of defects is sadly all too familiar to members on this forum, many stretching back over several years, suggesting that there is no learning from experience in the factory. It seems a fact of life that few motorhomes fresh out of production will be free of defects but you'd like to think that the dealer and the factory would be responsive in not only resolving them, but feeding that back into the design and production processes.

Hope you're able to put this bad start behind you and enjoy your van when circumstances allow. When they perform as they're meant to, they are superb vans and enable you to connect with the great outdoors in complete comfort.

Tim

Alan Curry at AS who dealt with me in the early days of my issues did put his hands up to say my motorhome should never of left the factory in the condition it did and he did bend over backwards to put everything right.. and there was a long list. He also said he had gotten some of the directors over to see my van as well, long and short is that he's now been moved over to head of quality in the production line to hopefully stop them turning out such shockingly poor quality vans... something he was really looking forward to. We shall see what the future holds,!!

Dealer Pre Delivery Inspection