Help required to remove trim on Clubman GL

Hi, like many others I am taking advantage of the lockdown to fix some niggly problems with my Clubman GL. One of these is a slight leak during heavy rain which seems to be getting in through the join between the front cab and the Autosleeper shell just above the front window on the passenger side.

I'd' like to remove the black trim which is between the top of the cab and the shell to see where the water is getting through but am not sure how to do this and would appreciate any help anyone can give me. 

Here is a photo of the trim, (ps the van will be power washed once I've finished all work   )

 

Are you completely certain it's not the strip inserts in the side of the roof above? IIRC they are known to leak. The join between roof and body should not leak, because as I understand it there is a big overlap for the seal in that area.

Hi Roopert, thanks for your reply. TBH I have no idea where the water is getting in, it's not a lot and only occurs in a really heavy downpour whilst we are driving. It seems to come through just above the windscreen on the passengers side, so it could be coming in further up and running down to where it's coming out.

By the side strips do you mean the dark perspex strips as in the picture below?



Here is a photo showing where the water comes out. Just to the right of the alarm sensor and from behind the grey cloth panel. 



I'll strip the grey cloth panels out and see if I can see where it is coming from. If it in getting in through the side strip as you suggest, is it a case of just replacing the seals on the side strip?

Yes, I think so! To be honest I'm "visually confused" because your first photo doesn't look much like any Clubman that I've seen. But I'm not too familiar with that model really.

I know the subject of those little fake "windows" (which may actually have been openings for light in earlier models) has been discussed here lots before, in the context of roof leaks. Maybe a forum search will help, though I wouldn't bank on it - this forum's search facility is almost useless in my experience...

Thanks Roopert. Yes I think the little fake windows maybe had a purpose if there was an overcab bed area, on mine this area has storage cupboards installed so you cannot even see the little windows from the inside. Although I think I may have seen them when I was installing some extra wiring and had removed some interior fittings for access. It was a few years ago so my memory of it is not clear.

In any case, thanks again for your help, I'll try searching the forum for previous discussions on these. 

Hi Jif,

couple of things. Your posting in  coachbuilt section and the Clubman in a monocoque, dont wish  to sound pedantic but you will get a better response to questions there as more members will have similar vehicle.

So.... water leaks on Clubman, in particular the Luton section above the cab. 

there have been a number of posts regarding this, but here is a summary of where to look for water leaks in that area. 

The side glass slot windows. This would be my number one suspect area. The slots that look like black perspex. These are glass and over time the primer for the bonding glue releases from the glass. The water can really run in. even if your van doesn't have the over cab bead the slots may well be cut in the body side and allow water in. The water runs forward and down the pillars, finding the easiest way it can.

The good news is they can be removed from the outside and re-sealed. The bad news is the insulation will be drenched and its tricky to get dry without removing the internal furniture / panels.

Front over cab marker lights. Some Clubman models have 2 small rectangular lights on the Luton. These can also leak. Removal is simple 2 screws. Then refit using a good quality clear sealer under the rubber gasket and between the gasket and lens. 

Roof vent, Theses can leak too. Again not difficult to remove, although getting all the old sealer off is tedious. If it is leaking, re-seal it with butyl tape.  

You can check the roof vent for leaks by getting someone to hold a hose in the area as you look from inside. 

Front windscreen, look for signs of de-lamination on your screen (white cloudy areas at the edge) again have someone hose the top corners of the screen as you push (gently) against the glass inside. I have seen the bond release on front screens. It usually results in needing a new screen. Around £250 fitted but if it is being removed check for rust around the screen as its a known problem on the VW T4 and have the dealt with before refitting.

Hi NCB, many thanks for your reply, plenty of very useful info there that I can get busy with. I didn't realise the Clubman GL was a monocoque, fairly new to this but will post in that section in the future, thanks for the heads up.

As I said in an earlier post, this hasn't been a big problem so far, only occuring very occasionally when the rain is driving and torrential, however it would be good to get it fixed now before it gets worse. Running down the posts in a forward direction certainly rings a bell, as it seems to come out of the side of the post just above the right side above the windscreen, so I'll start with the side glass slot window on that side first.

My thought is to use a power washer to spray water at pressure onto suspected areas to identify the leak.

Again thanks for posting this info, most useful.

Geoff

After a bit of searching I found this thread which was very informative and similar to my problem.

https://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t31748-leaking-cab?

I've decided to reseal both of the high black windows on the sides, I'll also reseal the little lights on the top front of the cab and will reseal the skylights while I'm at it.

Referring to the other thread the use of butyl tape is recommended for the skylights and NCB you used a window bonding kit for the little side windows.

Could anyone recommend the best butyl tape and window sealant kit for these purposes.

Many thanks in advance.

PS Could a mod possibly move this thread to the monocoque section, apologies for posting in the wrong section, thanks.

It may be worth calling the A/S spares department (I think they are open now, aren't they?) because when I resealed the roof windows on mine they were able to supply the correct butyl tape at a reasonable price.

Hi thanks for that. I've submitted an enquiry re the butyl tape with the parts dept. Will wait for their reply.

Hi there the butyl tape I used I bought from ebay, it has done the job of sealing roof  vents very well. I wouldnt use it for the side glass on the Luton though as the glass panes are to heavy for the butyl tape to support them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-PERFORMANCE-BUTYL-SEALANT-MASTIC-TAPE-8MM-X-6-METERS-LENGTH-GREY/332389805180?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D8c71cd1bec4940e3b3968369e8d984ba%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D332389805180%26itm%3D332389805180%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507


For the side glass i would use a boded window kit that will come with the special primer that you paint  onto the glass to allow the bonding agent to adhere to it .


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VANSTYLE-WINDOW-GLASS-BONDING-ADHESIVE-GLUE-CAMPERVAN-PANEL-SINGLE-FITTING-KIT/312627543886?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D2dc9285dc5864b5687ccff450588bf8d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D283376306370%26itm%3D312627543886%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithBBEV1Filter&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


And to  clean all the old glue residue off I find this tool very useful 

razor scraper 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silverline-Single-Edge-Razor-Blade-Scraper-Window-Clean-Paint-Tool-with-5-Blades/323856620304?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4b675bdb10:g:x1IAAOSwfgBdE7En&enc=AQAFAAACYBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickk5v8gVt3hEWLVg%2F253w6XCbEcRx%2BuUF4tP90jSxXSzVbzNXLjC9fEJtD6djBo0LqBzKOv%2F7CLGNjTzwVXXfxa51Xz1Qp1xFyxEFmO54Z8Xm%2B0IHkza%2B9Qj4hqDKlSwWc0XkxJfFeAv%2FoULubRdEVvzcSoH4Cra9%2BLWYSljP1TsaSopMuLeCOAtNJGQGL8awenX8YU0eWyrHQF28olp4Z5MGv43rQorkvamMsKq%2Bvz0Ch8U4C5ZEejw1rhPc90HmJXGnuZa399ibIzBKgihzOI8LHVkQZxq%2FpleaiwwRi4m5qW%2BwdmeQJk3KLrgDIfWlxsl4CJdqQCfpv%2FK4RkhIzVvcsO40WUPHssAc4mRCtk2b7pgoCqt6VHllbsYPF2XSnaGqOlkOZ2OSJMgnIPyCjdCniGwXaI8e8JHPk7Mvico7vALvypVXlZzkjP1LTCMHAb8LyEAsdfb1ixr23akEu94XU8qtddhabx%2FkkX%2BGJxUtukx6N79Vpdoc1EEqHmTAS4kbaoZLyPdSpdMVovIvJ66QyUbkZb3WKXm8RxG6WHKEFkQtwIoS%2B%2Fron5VpFG66imAOzPLcbBg7MdlLarudG%2BMfwC0iPbZv4vxzGToX4V7koVgcKdUm39SLPWSEz6sXCcvA7jpoSHdIKKaRP%2B89K%2F4b2i5A6U%2B9L89lmnq25eUOa2jMmyZXBV7YISttnsZF8jXNRiUCfoZSKT5HZGwWaWoCMBWGhb8gLII1O0UAqgqeQmPuktn0bVxZG4SjoscP0A&checksum=3238566203045bacb715058d4b67b5f9e34a509e8b3d

Brilliant NCB, thanks again for your help. I've got a few other wee jobs to finish off before I do this so just getting prepared the now. I've got a feeling that the leak might be on the windscreen seal, I can see some white discolouring you mentioned in a previous post around the area where the water is coming from, but having looked at the skylight window seals they look like they need replaced anyway, same for the small side windows, so I'll do these first and see if that cures the problem. I'll also replace the seals on the two lights above the windscreen.

As I said before, it really isn't a big leak and only occurs in really heavy driving rain but better to catch it now before it gets worse.

Cheers

Geoff

Hi Geoff

Happy to help wherever I can. I think you sold me a sliding window a while ago. It’s all about helping each other

Yes I remember, the year before last? Did you get it fitted OK? 

Totally agree with you, I've been thinking of photographing any work I do on the van to share here, I have limited experience of doing this type of work but every little helps 

Just a note of caution about using a power washer; there have been reports over the years about the decals and stripes being dislodged by power washers, so I'd use with caution if at all.

Hi, thanks for that. I'll bare that in mind when using my power washer. I will use from a suitable distance so that the pressure is reduced when it hits the van.

Hi Pete, thanks for the info. I intend to replace both these lights along with other seals etc, hopefully I'll catch wherever the leak is occuring. Hopefully it won't be the windscreen 

Now if it would only stop raining I could get on with it 

Geoff

Hi Pete, don't talk to me about pigeons, our next door neighbour used to throw out pigeon feed in his garden 3-4 times a day, the result - 50-60 pigeons constantly in his garden, result bird sh*1 everywhere, anytime you went into the garden they would fly up and scare the beejeezus out of everybody. After a long protracted period of asking him politely to refrain, we eventually got all the neighbours to make it clear to him that they weren't happy about it and that it was a health hazard. He grudgingly stopped but hasn't really spoken to me for the past couple of years. 

Anyway, yeah I have asked autosleeper parts dept. for a quote for these, hopefully they will supply the correct part for my van and they will fit OK.

Geoff

Jif,
I have a 1995 Clubman GL.  

The rubber seal around the T4 windscreen is basically for cosmetics.  The windscreen is bonded to the cab windscreen opening at installation.  However,  if water gets trapped behind the rubber trim (it looks like a seal but actually isn't), and there's any defect in the paintwork on the pillars or reveal, rust starts to form and eats away until it forms holes!!  Unfortunately, the T4 is well known for the problem.  I've found it worth using a kitchen pot scrubbing brush every few months to remove dirt and algae that start to collect in the lower corners and lower edge of the seal particularly. And occasionally gently lift the outside of the seal away from the lower corners of the screen pillars to see if water runs out - a sure sign that water's being trapped behind the seal and not getting away.

So, if your screen is going milky around some of the edges, and you're planning to have it replaced, ask the company to remove the old screen and come back a couple of days later to fit the new one.  This will give you time to completely clean up the windscreen reveal, remove any trace of rust, carry out any necessary repair, and thoroughly prime.  Speak to your auto-glass fitting company and ask them what finish the reveal must be to enable them to fit.  

I used National Windscreens - they were inexpensive, and really helpful - and I haven't had any problems with either screen or leakage.

Hi Jif,

I have a Gatcobe, which is the Clubmans sister van. When it was under warranty there was an issue regarding the screen sealant and the VW Dealer wanter to know how to remove the trim as shown in your post. I contacted Autosleeper who advised that that particular trim was put in place before the body was fixed to the chassis cab, so the VW Dealer got around the issue as removing the body to get at the body fixings wasn't an option.

Personally I would look elsewhere for your leak as suggested in the other posts.

Thanks Ian & Ron for the benefit of your experience, much appreciated.

Update on where I am with this. I have finished some small jobs I was doing and am now going to look at this problem. I asked Autosleeper Parts for a quote for the butyl tape, it was a little more than the ebay link NCB gave me but not much more and as I needed some other stuff from them I just got it from them, saved on postage. They couldn't supply the replacement lights so I will look at putting new seals on the existing lights..

I'm going to start by replacing the seals on the roof lights and see how it goes from there. I'll fire water at the section of windscreen that looks a bit suspect and either eliminate or confirm that as the area of leakage. 

I will look to replacing the black side windows following this.

(But with any luck we may get away for a few days wild camping in the not too distant future so further work will fit in with this).

Again thanks to you all for your help 

Hi Jif
Just wondering if you Found the source of your leak? My Clubman has a leak in the same place! The slot windows seem fine on mine but I did find a leak from a pin hole in the fibreglass at the front of the monocoque. Not sure if this is the source of my problem but it’s one little leak ticked off.

Hi Jif and Jamesofy,

Im having the exact same issue with my clubman, i have checked and resealed the top windows and checked the top cab lights an there seems to be no leaks.

but after pulling out the trim above the windscreen and having a feel around i can feel a fair bit of rust but has no access to it from the inside. 

soo... does anyone know how to remove the black trim so i can get to the rust from the outside to repair it? and if i do get it off can it go back on easily?