Battery HELP!!!

Hi all. Hope your all safe and well in this time of dread?!?

Anyway, like the pleb I am I have mislead myself starting my Ford Duetto 94 automatic 2.4 Diesal for a week. And yep......the battery has died. 

Is there a switch on the Zig X3 that allows me to charge it from Mains? Before I start ripping the battery out? 

I can’t afford solar at the minute, so no suggestions on that please. I do realize that it’s a very positive way forward though. And will do it once finances allow. 

Any help is appreciated, (except solar lol)

Kind regards

Shaun and Chez

I think the Zig X3 only charges the Hab battery. Someone who knows for sure will be along soon.

Ahhhhh nuts, I thought as much lol. Oh well, looks like getting it ripped out and charged. On a charger I have to purchase lol. 

Thanks for the swift reply.

I had a 1999 Duetto with the Zig power unit and there was no switch to allow charging of the starter battery.

Okays, can anyone recommend a charger that fits under the bonnet to save disconnecting? Just Incase I can save the battery at all?

It depends how much you're willing to spend. If you can afford one then a CTEK would be a good choice - they are compact, efficient and they work well. And the slightly more expensive ones have a battery recovery mode which tries to make the best of getting back one that's been left flat for a while.

However, CTEKs can be a bit awkward with completely dead flat batteries - so you may need to use something else to get the voltage off the ground.

Otherwise the chargers that are sold by Lidl and Aldi are reputed to work quite well, for not much money?

Incidentally, if your control panel has a battery select switch, you may find that just switching that over to the engine battery will swap the Zig charger over too - but be warned that you may blow a fuse if the battery is completely and utterly dead - it depends a bit on the wiring and fuse rating.

My 2002 Pollensa with Zig didn't have any facility to charge the engine battery, only the leisure battery. I was able to overcome this by fitting a Battery Master device. When the engine battery voltage falls below the level of the hab battery, it  automatically moves charge from the leisure battery to the engine battery. Fit and forget.

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Shaun&Chez wrote:Okays, can anyone recommend a charger that fits under the bonnet to save disconnecting? Just Incase I can save the battery at all?

Yes as other fm's have said the Zig only charges the leisure battery.

I have one of these which are pretty good. They plug into the 12v socket.

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It wasn't 'til circa 2010 era that vans started to be wired so that the hab charger could charge the cranking battery as well. If the battery went flat relatively quickly and  has been left in a flat condition for a while, especially in cold weather, then it's highly likely to be shot. If it does get charged up, it's unlikely to hold that charge for any time at all. Probably best to bite the bullet and get a new one, saving the money you might spend on a charger that won't really help.

steamdrivenandy wrote:It wasn't 'til circa 2010 era that vans started to be wired so that the hab charger could charge the cranking battery as well.

I've no doubt it varies a lot from make to make, but our 2005 Trooper (with Sargent PSU2005) has the facility - if you move the battery select switch to the engine battery then the habitation loads are powered by the engine battery, and the built-in charger charges the engine battery.

Our 2006 and 2008 vans can use the cranking battery to power the hab, but the hab charger won't charge the cranking batteries ( there are two cranking batteries on the current van), one of which has just had to be replaced as it wouldn't hold a charge. It was 12 years old, so it did well, given garages reckon batteries last 5 years, on average.

Bulletguy wrote:

Shaun&Chez wrote:Okays, can anyone recommend a charger that fits under the bonnet to save disconnecting? Just Incase I can save the battery at all?

Yes as other fm's have said the Zig only charges the leisure battery.

I have one of these which are pretty good. They plug into the 12v socket.

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Can you leave these in all the time? I’ve heard they can also decharge the battery?

Shaun&Chez wrote:
Can you leave these in all the time? I’ve heard they can also decharge the battery?

Should be fine - we have one mounted on the dash of our Yaris, and it's been there, connected to the battery full-time, for at least 10 years!

You just need to be sure that they have a diode in place to prevent battery discharge during the dark, but any sold for vehicular use almost certainly will.

are both your batteries under the bonnet .vehicle on o/s and leisure on the n/s .if so you could put a set of jump leads from the leisure to the vehicle battery but turn off charger first when connecting leads. this will charge your vehicle battery and help not cook the battery.

glyne lock wrote:are both your batteries under the bonnet .vehicle on o/s and leisure on the n/s .if so you could put a set of jump leads from the leisure to the vehicle battery but turn off charger first when connecting leads. this will charge your vehicle battery and help not cook the battery.

Yes both are under the bonnet, I’m not sure what you mean though? You’ll have to excuse me it’s my first camper, and 25 years old at that lol. 

Not really had it standing as because we are a disabled couple we get out in it as much as we physically can. But under these crazy times .......etc. 

Are you saying jump start it from leisure? Or charge it from leisure?

Connect it as you would to jump start then turn on your charger this will put a slow charge and charge the vehicle back up

I hope we won't get any misunderstandings here - this thread started because the engine battery is dead flat. Under those circumstances you must NOT connect a leisure battery across the flat engine battery, because you will probably damage the leisure battery (and also get a massive spark and big currents flowing when you do it!). True leisure batteries are not design to deliver the sort of currents that will be involved if you do that.

Yeah that’s rite, my battery is dead flat.....it just about lights up the dash lights etc. I do have a van Bitz alarm fitted too which has helped to drain it no doubt, but I’m reluctant to disarm it at the minute as I live in a dodgy area.

I have ordered a smart battery charger, should be here by sat......but each day it’s dies 

If you put any charger to a battery that is that flat it will now start with very high amps and cook the battery.this is why I say to in other post when charging a flat battery to connect a good battery this then makes the charger go to lower amps as the higher volts from the good battery makes the charger go to lower amps.
Roopert lots will have fitted different amp batteries as extras for the leisure the charger will cut out when the lower amp battery is full and the higher battery never charges to full
If he charges like this today then tonight turn off and leave over night then remove jump lead from the leisure first. Then he could remove the earth lead from the leisure battery and  connect up jump leads to the vehicle battery and + on leisure post and - to the leisure  earth lead . Now this will charge vehicle to full with the van charger

glyne lock wrote:If you put any charger to a battery that is that flat it will now start with very high amps and cook the battery.this is why I say to in other post when charging a flat battery to connect a good battery this then makes the charger go to lower amps as the higher volts from the good battery makes the charger go to lower amps.

Glyne, sorry, but in my experience:

1. If you use a good-quality battery charger such as a CTEK, it will current-limit during the initial stage of charging, so it won't "cook" the battery. The situation would be different if you were using an industrial grade fast-charger, but most people here won't have one of those (thankfully).

2. If you use jump leads to connect a fully charged leisure battery across a dead-flat engine battery you will get a loud "crack" as you make contact, and somewhere in the region of 100 Amps will try to flow during the first few seconds from the leisure battery to the engine battery. It won't do the leisure battery any good at all.

In technical terms, the reason for 2. above is the internal resistance of a lead/acid battery versus the internal resistance of a battery charger. It is much, much lower, so it can deliver very high currents into the similarly low internal resistance of the flat battery. A typical battery charger won't be able to do that, unless it is designed to (as is the case with industrial fast-chargers).

Roopert
when people put post about charging you say to check the fuse .yes this blows as a high amp try  to go  and charge a very flat battery and yes it blows because the high amps .i have been jump starting vehicles on breakdowns for the last 40 years so would hope I have been doing it correctly . we dont damage are jump batteries we have on breakdown vans and this is being used day after day. the batteries used inside jump packs don't get damaged bring used for this . a charger starts with a high amps and regulates to the battery voltage and lowers the amps. so buy doing as I have said stops the cooking a flat battery as the good battery makes the charger go to lower amps quicker . when you use an inverter this  takes very high amps and does not damage the battery. so with your experience please have a think about what you have said

Shaun&Chez wrote:

Bulletguy wrote:

Shaun&Chez wrote:Okays, can anyone recommend a charger that fits under the bonnet to save disconnecting? Just Incase I can save the battery at all?

Yes as other fm's have said the Zig only charges the leisure battery.

I have one of these which are pretty good. They plug into the 12v socket.

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Can you leave these in all the time? I’ve heard they can also decharge the battery?

I've left mine connected for fairly long periods and not experienced any discharge though i see Roopert answered your question further.

Shaun&Chez wrote:Yeah that’s rite, my battery is dead flat.....it just about lights up the dash lights etc. I do have a van Bitz alarm fitted too which has helped to drain it no doubt, but I’m reluctant to disarm it at the minute as I live in a dodgy area.

I have ordered a smart battery charger, should be here by sat......but each day it’s dies 

If "dead flat" then it's likely shot i'm afraid and no amount of charging would be likely to bring it back. Your alarm will almost certainly drain it....big time, i'm afraid. After market alarms tend to. As your battery is already "dead flat" then arming your alarm is pointless as it's not going to operate!

There are a number of other ways of securing a van without relying on electrics and it would be worthwhile looking into that.

glyne lock wrote:please have a think about what you have said

I did think about it - honest!

Jump-start batteries are fine - they are essentially engine start batteries, and high currents will not harm them. But leisure batteries are not designed to deliver high currents. That's why it's widely accepted that you should never try to start a vehicle with a leisure battery, and using one to part-recharge a flat engine battery is just as bad. The internal plate structure is different and it is likely to damage it.

Sadly I suspect that Bulletguy is right and the OP's engine battery is shot. But he has a charger on the way, so he may as well try!