Change whale water system to gravity fed

Michelle_h wrote:

Toffee wrote:Can I ask why you are fed up with the system? I ask as I have replaced a lot of these valves due to slow flow problems that reoccur with annoying persistence. If this is the issue I is very easy to remove the valve internals to allow quicker filling.

Currently we are unable to get any water into the fresh water tank.  Our previous van had a manual water filling input and we never had a problem.  The whale system is fine while it's working but if something goes wrong then it's a pain.

Have you looked at the filter in the inlet valve?  It is a very fine mesh and does need cleaning from time to time, otherwise filling gets slower and slower until eventually it won't fill at all.

Having worked that out, we have no problems with the whale system on our 2011 Worcester and the benefit for us as we tour, mostly using aires and wildcamping, is that we don't lose 20% of our water just after we've filled up as soon as we go up a half decent hill.

Michelle_h wrote:

Toffee wrote:Can I ask why you are fed up with the system? I ask as I have replaced a lot of these valves due to slow flow problems that reoccur with annoying persistence. If this is the issue I is very easy to remove the valve internals to allow quicker filling.

Currently we are unable to get any water into the fresh water tank.  Our previous van had a manual water filling input and we never had a problem.  The whale system is fine while it's working but if something goes wrong then it's a pain.

Have you cleaned the filter in the inlet valve? It has a very fine mesh and will clog up, making filling slower and slower until no water will go in at all.

One benefit of the whale system is that you don't lose 20% of you water if you go up a half decent hill shortly after filling the tank

hblewett wrote:One benefit of the whale system is that you don't lose 20% of you water if you go up a half decent hill shortly after filling the tank

Can you clarify how that happens?
I fill to the brim with a downspout end and a 10 litre water container, and have set off up some pretty steep mountain roads without losing a drop.
Al.

I wondered too! With the rank under the floor and the inlet about a foot above it would need pretty vicious cornering!

bikeralw wrote:

hblewett wrote:One benefit of the whale system is that you don't lose 20% of you water if you go up a half decent hill shortly after filling the tank

Can you clarify how that happens?
I fill to the brim with a downspout end and a 10 litre water container, and have set off up some pretty steep mountain roads without losing a drop.
Al.

When you have conventional fill fresh water, once you've  100% filled it, it is free to run out of the overflow when you get on a slope.  We witnessed this following other motorhomes on the one and only group tour we did many years ago.  With the whale system there is nowhere for air to get in at the top of the system , so no water will come out of the tank overflow under gravity since there is no air pressure and it will create a vacuum as soon as any water drains out.  That is what I understand to be happening.

What I am sure of is that with the same size fresh water tank as in our previous conventional fill van we now can g0 two days longer on one fill-up than we could with the old van, and I have never seen any water trail behind us when going uphill in our current van.

Irrespective of filling system, your 2011 Worcester should have a breather aperture at the top of the tank to which is connected a short pipe that is 'p' clipped to the floor.  If the pipe is missing or not in the 'p' clip, water can drain on a slope but if properly fitted it shouldn't.  

My tank was dropped a few years ago and the fitter did not replace the pipe in the clip so I witnessed the water loss that occurred until I re-instated the status quo.

The whale system stops filling when a ball valve in the top of the tank operates a switch.

On some vans such as the Bourton where the fresh water storage is two tanks, one above and one below the floor, connected by a narrow tube, the tank will appear full using the gravity fill then 10 mins later it will not be as the water has drained from top to bottom.  As the whale system fill is much slower and will fill/rest/fill under the control of the ball valve, you will get a true full tank.

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Peter Brown wrote:Irrespective of filling system, your 2011 Worcester should have a breather aperture at the top of the tank to which is connected a short pipe that is 'p' clipped to the floor.  If the pipe is missing or not in the 'p' clip, water can drain on a slope but if properly fitted it shouldn't.  

I have no problems with the current Worcester moho, it was the previous Autotrail where we lost water going uphill, as I believe most, if not all conventional fill mohos do.

I shall nevertheless check the overflow on ours, just to be sure it's right.

hblewett wrote:One benefit With the whale system there is nowhere for air to get in at the top of the system , so no water will come out of the tank overflow under gravity since there is no air pressure and it will create a vacuum as soon as any water drains out. 

Sorry, but no.

If that was the case it would be impossible to fill the tank, as the air above the water would pressurise and prevent it from filling anywhere near to the top.

Similarly, if a vacuum was created as soon as any water drained out, the flow at the taps would stop after a short time. 

The tank overflow itself allows air to escape as the tank fills, and conversely allows some back in as the water is drawn off.

I know some people have had water loss problems, but the reason is unclear - unless theirs was a dual tank as Peter explained, and they had not taken the time to completely fill both tanks. 

Of course you're right!  Whatever the reason, I have seen many examples of water draining from motorhomes, and we definately can go longer in this moho than in the previous one with the same quoted capacity.

I do notice that the overflow on the Worcester only starts to flow when the tank has filled and is under some pressure - because the inlet hose starts to move with the pressure once the tank is full, then a wee while after a small flow will start from the overflow.

Our 2019 Kemerton XL too came with both filling arrangements, but Whale system here will remain unused. I'm still able to carry 21 litres of water at a time from tap to van, 7L in a plastic watering can that has a screw-on spout and removable end cork, plus a 14L clear plastic collapsible cube, widely available at the shows. I use the watering can for filling the tank, then subsequently decanting more water from the cube to the can.

That said, I appreciate other use their van's shower far more than we do. The last time was a few years ago, we were staying on a CL in hot weather and it was the quickest way to cool off.

Things are a little clearer now, at least regarding a 2 tank systems. But as my breather is situated at the top of the filler neck, which, as Ron has said, is a good foot above the tank, there's no way for water to spill out on hills.
Al.
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That picture is exactly why I refused the offer of an extra gravity fill inlet on my van. I did not want to lose more storage space in the bed locker.. I would dearly love to install an extra heater output in the offside bed locker just behind the driver's seat - but I don't want to lose the space taken up by the air duct.

Relaxez-Vous wrote: I'm still able to carry 21 litres of water at a time from tap to van, 7L in a plastic watering can that has a screw-on spout and removable end cork, plus a 14L clear plastic collapsible cube, widely available at the shows. I use the watering can for filling the tank, then subsequently decanting more water from the cube to the can.

  
 Please forgive me but I find the image funny , faffing about with 2 containers decanting from 1 to the other then having to hold and support them while filling the spout. I take a 20l container, fill it and if any distance from tap wheel it using a collapsible luggage trolley (£6 from Post Office)) and stand admiring the view , pass the time of day with fellow campers or sip my morning coffee etc while the whale system does the hard work as intended!  

kaspian, I only have to lift up the 7L watering can, it's easy-peasy. No faffing about with any trolley, and all the kit is compact enough to go in the bottom of the wardrobe.

inspiredron wrote:That picture is exactly why I refused the offer of an extra gravity fill inlet on my van. I did not want to lose more storage space in the bed locker.. I would dearly love to install an extra heater output in the offside bed locker just behind the driver's seat - but I don't want to lose the space taken up by the air duct.

But being the bed locker Ron, what seems like half a cubic foot of space taken up by filler and breather pipes, it is in effect next to nothing, as a pillow, quilt, sheet, or whatever can be stuffed around it.
Now if you use the space for rigid wine boxes that's a different story!
Al.

Relaxez-vous - relax! Im not getting at you personally but please  understand  we do  go through the argument of Whale filler versus humphin' water in a watering can several  times a year !    
      Luckily I am still physically able to carry my 20l container without folding trolley but include it for those who are not or the odd occasion where water taps are literally miles from your pitch .  
       Yes there may be the odd occasion where gremlins occur with the system but I still say it is easier plugging in a pump with the water container on the ground as intended  rather than decanting into a watering can and standing  holding it at waist level while filling a small hole in the wall! Each to their own - vive la difference! 

Referring to Als picture above, my 1999 Duetto used to lose a quarter of a tank from home to site. The fresh water tank on that had small vent holes in the top with nylon inserts that closed the vent when water surged against them and allowed the tank to breath at other times. It turned out that two of the inserts had gone awol. The fix made at the Service centre was to seal the original vents and pipe to a breather in the filler - as shown in Als photo.

Peter Brown wrote:Referring to Als picture above, my 1999 Duetto used to lose a quarter of a tank from home to site.  The fresh water tank on that had small vent holes in the top with nylon inserts that closed the vent when water surged against them and allowed the tank to breath at other times.  It turned out that two of the inserts had gone awol.  The fix made at the Service centre was to seal the original vents and pipe to a breather in the filler - as shown in Als photo.

Now that explains how water can be lost in transit - thanks Peter. I didn't know about the nylon inserts.

It also indicates the wisdom of keeping things simple. Nothing to drop out or go wrong with the piped breather system in Al's photo.

did notice after filling the freshwater tank with the whale system and stops when full?
but tested and found I could get another 15 litres or so in the tank using the gravity fill. and found filling a lot quicker by using it

I'm guessing not the two tier tank. How much you get in with the Whale will depend on the float level adjustment and the level of the tank with respect to the location of the float.

bikeralw wrote:

inspiredron wrote:That picture is exactly why I refused the offer of an extra gravity fill inlet on my van. I did not want to lose more storage space in the bed locker.. I would dearly love to install an extra heater output in the offside bed locker just behind the driver's seat - but I don't want to lose the space taken up by the air duct.

But being the bed locker Ron, what seems like half a cubic foot of space taken up by filler and breather pipes, it is in effect next to nothing, as a pillow, quilt, sheet, or whatever can be stuffed around it.
Now if you use the space for rigid wine boxes that's a different story!
Al.

Nail hit precisely on the head Al! Our bedding goes in the locker over the cab together with TV, Laptop and internal silver screens. Spare towels and linen go into the offside locker over the cab and that leaves the offside bed locker free for, from memory, 5 wine boxes which house a selection of dry goods when we leave home and wine bottles when we return!

I guess it's just human nature that even those with vans of a similar layout have different ways of storing things. The 3 over cab lockers are for our rolled clothes, hers on the nearside, mine on the offside. Nearside bed locker with the water pipes contains our memory foam topper, a quilt and cover, four pillows and a sheet. The offside bed locker is for all the essentials you mention Ron..
Al.

kaspian wrote:

Relaxez-Vous wrote: I'm still able to carry 21 litres of water at a time from tap to van, 7L in a plastic watering can that has a screw-on spout and removable end cork, plus a 14L clear plastic collapsible cube, widely available at the shows. I use the watering can for filling the tank, then subsequently decanting more water from the cube to the can.

  
 Please forgive me but I find the image funny , faffing about with 2 containers decanting from 1 to the other then having to hold and support them while filling the spout. I take a 20l container, fill it and if any distance from tap wheel it using a collapsible luggage trolley (£6 from Post Office)) and stand admiring the view , pass the time of day with fellow campers or sip my morning coffee etc while the whale system does the hard work as intended

 Please forgive me but I find the image funny , faffing about with a 20l container which has to be stored (usually in vans that dont excell in the storage department) then wheeling it on a ccolapsible luggage trolley from the tap to the van, then getting out the 'special hose' (no use for anything else), plug in tne special hose to the special slot, tirn it on and stand admiring the view , pass the time of day with fellow campers or sip my morning coffee etc while the whale system does the hard work as intended....wonderful.
repeat as necessary.

however, if i want to fill my tank id have to do this rigmarole five times.....or i could stick the hose in and fill in one go in a couple of minutes...

its easy to pull legs over different 'water filling regimes' and the whale is a good idea in theory (now where did i see that on another thread.....ah yes, Smart Charging... ) but is too prescriptive and has no easy alternative as the hole will only accept the whale fitting...

i can see why it polarises opinion....sorry, im in the loathe it camp and i dont even have one.

Caraman wrote:I find it does take an awful long time to fill a 100 litre tank (+ 10 litre Combi) with the Whale attachment and its collapsible hose.  It also takes time to lay out the hose and remove twists from it, and then use the adaptor to flush the hose before use, and after use expel water from the hose by rolling it up carefully.  All of this makes me feel uncomfortable when there is someone waiting to use the service point.  Has anyone found or devised a cassette or reel to speed up the laying out and recovery of the hose?

Bit slow on the uptake and as I no longer have a whale system (to be honest wish I did) 

Anyway filling pipe, came to me in one of those very,very rare moments after being on a site where the tap was just out of reach of the van, anyway what i did was cut the pipe at about 5mts fitted a standard hose connector on each end and bought another whale connector and hose. On one of these i cut the pipe about 50cm from the van connector end and then again about in the middle and put the standard hose connectors on each end. I now have different lengths so that no matter how close or far i can get from a tap i have the right size  and usually a lot less hose to roll up.
Having cut the hoses it is now much easier to roll up and seems to take up less space even though i have more hose.

David

Heanorboy wrote:

Caraman wrote:IHas anyone found or devised a cassette or reel to speed up the laying out and recovery of the hose?

Having cut the hoses it is now much easier to roll up and seems to take up less space even though i have more hose.

David

Thank you David.  That sounds like a good idea.  I'll give it some thought.