2009 Nuevo Classic - Tyre Pressures

glyne lock wrote:Caraman
as I sad caraman this is only a recommended fig on the plate not a legal fig and this was an example to molly3
Caraman
if you want to find fault with what I have said  we are not talking about tyre pressure monitoring system .I could have explained how to adjust the settings but as you are saying this is about lowering the pressures for more comfort.
I am not a troll as a lot are on this forum this is my trade and have worked with tyre manufacturers as to what pressures for what load a vehicle is carrying .so when I correct someone when they say something incorrect I try and explain as I did here to molly3. so best you do a bit of trolling to try and find more fault with what I have said.

Hi glyne lock

You say " I could have explained how to adjust the settings ". I will assume you mean TPMS. This would be so helpful to all. I am sure there are hundreds of us on this forum, that would love you to share the secret of adjusting the TPMS on our vans. so that we don't have to take the van into Peugeot and spend a mint at the dealers to get this done. 

Come on, spill the beans!

jadatis. wrote:
Greatings from a " pigheaded Dutch selfdeclared tyrepressure-specialist"

Hi jadatis. What this thread could do with is more of the above.

Do our UK car door pillars not show two sets of tyre pressure readings, one with rear passengers and one without. We rarely drive more than two up so I use the lower figure. I seem to remember that puts the front pressures higher than the rear. Can't check at the moment the car is over 1000 miles away in the rain.

Silly thing is if a couple ask for a lift and I don't  like them can I use the illegality as an excuse. Oh they woul buy a foot pump wouldn't  they.

My 2008 Nuevo ES gives pressures of Front 59.5psi and Rear 65psi on the passenger door label which I usually stick to, however I am suprised at the difference (72.3/79.5), quoted on some other models.  Front difference is almost 13psi which seems a lot. I guess my van runs at just under the 3.5 tons when I am on trips but no idea of front and back axle loads. I would have thought that the figures should have been similar and now wonder what the safe pressures are for mine.

anders4 wrote:My 2008 Nuevo ES gives pressures of Front 59.5psi and Rear 65psi on the passenger door label which I usually stick to, however I am suprised at the difference (72.3/79.5), quoted on some other models.  Front difference is almost 13psi which seems a lot. I guess my van runs at just under the 3.5 tons when I am on trips but no idea of front and back axle loads. I would have thought that the figures should have been similar and now wonder what the safe pressures are for mine.

There should be a second label that shows the maximum permitted weights and specifically the maximum permitted axle weights.  There is on mine which shows the front as 1850 kg and the rear as 2000 kg.  Yours might be different.  On mine the 72.3 psi corresponds to the 1850 kg and the 79.5 psi to the 2000 kg for the Continental VancoCamper 215/70 R15 CP 109R that my Nuevo was supplied with.  This detail is only available from Continental.  It wasn't provided with the Nuevo.  Your Nuevo may have been fitted with a different type of tyre with different psi figures.  The CP tyres that I have are designed to run at higher pressures specifically for motorhomes to cater for their uneven loading, long rear overhang, high centre of gravity and long periods of inactivity.  Your tyres may not have been CP.  I have heard from Continental today who have confirmed that my tyres supplied at 72.3 psi and 79.5 psi by AS and the dealer were overinflated, the front tyre by over 1/3rd, for the likely actual axle weights.  I will post the full advice I have received from Continental once I have heard from AS.

notwithstanding the issues around the 'helpful' TPMS system (another 'great in theory' idea that cant easily be tailored to customers' requirements, where a one-size-fits-all is certainly not whats required when dealing with variable pressures...) the only way to determine the correct pressures for 'your van' (they are all different) is to obtain the axle weights and consult the manufacturer recommendations...
not only that, isnt weighing the van (and obtaining axle weights) good practice so that the owner understands what capacity is available within the van's (and the axle's) plated/legal limitations.
i even got my dealer to weigh mine as part of the purchase deal as i wanted to ensure i could run the van comfortably at 3.5t....which i do.
understanding (real, measured) weights and resulting payloads and required tyre pressures is surely second nature for any motorhomer, isnt it?
dont believe any brochure, sticker or salesman when it comes to this most basic (and most important) of MH attributes.

Spot on, Chris.
Cymro

bolero boy as part of the purchase deal as i wanted to ensure i could run the van comfortably at 3.5t....which i do. wrote:understanding (real, measured) weights and resulting payloads and required tyre pressures is surely second nature for any motorhomer, isnt it?
dont believe any brochure, sticker or salesman when it comes to this most basic (and most important) of MH attributes.

The maximum load sticker on the door pillar is Italian reflecting the Chassis cab spec. and place of manufacture. My Nuevo even reverts to speaking Italian from time to time.

To be fair particularly for a newcomer MHomer, surely the supplying dealer should hand over the vehicle with tyre pressures which are not over inflated. Maybe maximum for the, in this case 3.5t allowed.
The most important thing to remember is, don't trust anything the dealer tells you about anything, base vehicle to electrics and gas. Unless of course there is one out there who does care about the customer not just the Sales Target.

Spot on, Marconi.

I really do think that the dealer and AS through the information pack should have told me that the tyre pressures had been set for a payload of 1026 kg, which is 350 kg above the legal limit, and that before using the motorhome I should load it as I intend to use it, take it to a weighbridge to have the axle weights measured, contact Continental to establish the correct pressures and then book it in to a Peugeot dealer to have the TPMS adjusted. And then repeat the process if the loading regime changes.  This might be second nature to seasoned motorhomers but its not to newcomers like me who are used to managing a much smaller loading margin on a caravan and without going anywhere near a weighbridge.

Caraman, et al

I've been up to Wiltshire Grain, near Larkhill this morning and got my Nuevo weighed (£10).  As it stood, 2,900kg total (1,320 front, 1,580 rear).  Adding for fresh water, waste water, passenger and "stuff", I reckon on the trip weight being about 3,050kg (1,426 front, 1634 rear).

I have been running on the sticker values (72 & 80psi) which have made it a bit of a bone-shaker.  I have now reduced to 60 & 65psi (the previous sticker values - the previous sticker can just be seen underneath) which seems a lot gentler, but the rears do now look a shade under-inflated.  However, I am still well above the Continental figures.

I would rather be over than under.  An over-inflated tyre will not overheat, as an under-inflated one will.

Large rear over-hang does not apply to Nuevos.  Long periods of inactivity does not apply to ours either.  High centre of gravity - possibly, but less so if loaded sensibly. Uneven loading - ditto.

Those who do abandon their vans for long periods might be well advised to pump the tyres up to max, to help prevent flat spots.

It would be nice if this pile of poo could get cleared up definitively, but as with other B difficult situations I'm not expecting it any time soon.

Nick

This subject has been on the forum several times a year since 2011, It was also 2 or 3 times a year in the ASOC Newsletter since I joined in 2004, as said, I don't think it will stop anytime soon!

Knick-Knack,
Thanks for that.  I may well be going to the same weighbridge as you.  For the front axle/tyres I received the following figures from Continental yesterday:
1425 Kg = 3.0 Bar
1520 Kg = 3.25 Bar
1615 Kg = 3.5 Bar
1705 Kg = 3.75 Bar
1795 Kg = 4.0 Bar
1885 Kg = 4.25 Bar
1975 Kg = 4.5 Bar
2060 Kg = 4.75 Bar
This means that your 1426 Kg front equates to about 3.0 Bar or about 43.5 psi.  To be on the safe side you could push it up a bit higher than this but using these figures 60 psi still seems high but a great deal better than the 72.3 psi that we started with.
The Continental figures for the rear axle/tyres were:
1270 Kg = 3.0 Bar
1350 Kg = 3.25 Bar
1435 Kg = 3.5 Bar
1516 Kg = 3.75 Bar
1595 Kg = 4.0 Bar
1675 Kg = 4.25 Bar
1755 Kg = 4.5 Bar
1830 Kg = 4.75 Bar
1910 Kg = 5.0 Bar
1985 Kg = 5.25 Bar
2060 Kg = 5.5 Bar
This means that your 1643 Kg rear equates to about 4.25 Bar which you could push up to 4.5 Bar to be on the safe side.  This equates to about 65 psi which is what you have calculated.
I think you should check with Continental if you haven't already that you are using the latest figures for the front which all seem to have come down from the 2017/2018 ones shown on the forum page.  I used Continental's on-line contacts page and received a very quick and detailed reply from them.

Caraman wrote:Knick-Knack,
I think you should check with Continental if you haven't already that you are using the latest figures for the front which all seem to have come down from the 2017/2018 ones shown on the forum page.

My mistake.  They are the same as the Forum figures shown on the Continental table as FA S (Front Axle Single).  I was confused with the RA S (Rear Axle Single) figures which are deliberately higher than the front axle figures.

Caraman

Many thanks for all that.

It's cash only at the weighbridge, by the way.

Caraman wrote:Knick-Knack,
Thanks for that.  I may well be going to the same weighbridge as you.  For the front axle/tyres I received the following figures from Continental yesterday:
1425 Kg = 3.0 Bar
1520 Kg = 3.25 Bar
1615 Kg = 3.5 Bar
1705 Kg = 3.75 Bar
1795 Kg = 4.0 Bar
1885 Kg = 4.25 Bar
1975 Kg = 4.5 Bar
2060 Kg = 4.75 Bar
This means that your 1426 Kg front equates to about 3.0 Bar or about 43.5 psi.  To be on the safe side you could push it up a bit higher than this but using these figures 60 psi still seems high but a great deal better than the 72.3 psi that we started with.
The Continental figures for the rear axle/tyres were:
1270 Kg = 3.0 Bar
1350 Kg = 3.25 Bar
1435 Kg = 3.5 Bar
1516 Kg = 3.75 Bar
1595 Kg = 4.0 Bar
1675 Kg = 4.25 Bar
1755 Kg = 4.5 Bar
1830 Kg = 4.75 Bar
1910 Kg = 5.0 Bar
1985 Kg = 5.25 Bar
2060 Kg = 5.5 Bar
This means that your 1643 Kg rear equates to about 4.25 Bar which you could push up to 4.5 Bar to be on the safe side.  This equates to about 65 psi which is what you have calculated.
I think you should check with Continental if you haven't already that you are using the latest figures for the front which all seem to have come down from the 2017/2018 ones shown on the forum page.  I used Continental's on-line contacts page and received a very quick and detailed reply from them.

I think, Continental want you to look back the max permisable axleweight, and cover rear with their list, the usual overloading.
Front mostly stays way below MPAW.  Exept for a minibus build over. Ooh or is that what you call autosleeper. 
I am buisy with a calculator to calc the division over the axles. 

Already came to standard motorhome( so with aluminium buildup) that total gravitypoint lays between 41 and 45% of totallength behind the frontbumper . For Buscampers bexause of iron body 44 to 48% . 
But buscampers mostly do come to their MPAW front , because of the shorter length behind the rear axle ( short bottom).

having followed this for a while my only question is how did the OP manage to get axle weights  of 1,403kg (Front) and 1,602kg (Rear).

1403kg is pretty much what I have but my rear is nearer to 1850!
I have moved stuff around and weighed at a couple of different weighbridges  but really struggle to get the rear any where near to 1800 - 1600 is a pipe dream for me!


so whats the secret, helium?

By way of comparison, Raymondo, my Nuevo ES (the one with the high roof / 4 berth), in full holiday trim (fuel / water / 2 bikes / usual gear / driver only) came in at 1,440kg front and 1,960kg rear; total 3,400kg.  According to Continental's chart, I could run the tyres at 44psi / 75 psi. In fact I run at 53:75.

Those measurements were taken shortly after buying the van in 2015; in 2018, whilst waiting for a Caledonian MacBrayne ferry at Kennacraig, I spotted their weighbridge and asked if they'd allow me to use it. They did (foc) although I only had the total mass, not individual axles, and this time there were 2 of us on board (but less water and fuel). Total was 3,440kg. A bit close to the 3,500 limit.

Interesting subject - see my recent discussion starter about resetting the monitoring system. My Broadway is 4 years old and I have been running at 5.0 bar front, 5.5 bar rear whereas the recommendation from Continental in a very helpful email and based on fully loaded weighbridge data is 3.25/5.25. Reduced the pressures today at service and the ride is transformed! I wish that I had done it 4 years ago.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that during the first year of ownership I needed to take the van to the AS factory workshop and on the way the low pressure warning came on so I asked them to inflate the tyre. The service engineer pointed to the plate on the near side door column - 5.0/5.5 then pointed to the tyre - 69 psi and asked me what pressure I wanted. He didn’t know. As anybody reading these posts would know, the plated figures are for a loaded Boxer, the 69 psi on the tyre is for the American market and what you really need to do is weigh the van front and rear axle fully loaded and use the Continental data.

... and if anybody can answer my post about resetting I would be grateful.

Has anyone who has reduced their tyre pressures below the manufacturer's plated figure, or is planning to do so, sought AS's or Peugeot's advice.  If so, what was their advice?

Caraman wrote:Has anyone who has reduced their tyre pressures below the manufacturer's plated figure, or is planning to do so, sought AS's or Peugeot's advice.  If so, what was their advice?

As I mentioned above, I was at the service centre at Willersey which is right next to the factory. The Workshop Manager at that time could not give any advice on tyre pressures. Also true of my AS dealer. Everybody seems clueless.

BornAgain wrote:Interesting subject - see my recent discussion starter about resetting the monitoring system. My Broadway is 4 years old and I have been running at 5.0 bar front, 5.5 bar rear whereas the recommendation from Continental in a very helpful email and based on fully loaded weighbridge data is 3.25/5.25. Reduced the pressures today at service and the ride is transformed! I wish that I had done it 4 years ago.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that during the first year of ownership I needed to take the van to the AS factory workshop and on the way the low pressure warning came on so I asked them to inflate the tyre. The service engineer pointed to the plate on the near side door column - 5.0/5.5 then pointed to the tyre - 69 psi and asked me what pressure I wanted. He didn’t know. As anybody reading these posts would know, the plated figures are for a loaded Boxer, the 69 psi on the tyre is for the American market and what you really need to do is weigh the van front and rear axle fully loaded and use the Continental data.

... and if anybody can answer my post about resetting I would be grateful.

Be carefull with reducing front tyrepressure. Dont go from MPAW, in my made spreadsheet, I add 5% , if MPAW only are given.  Iff real axeweights given ( fully loaded so everythingbin it as you drive, everyone too) I add 10% , to cover unequall load R/L, .  Then look that weight up in the list . 
I will start a new topic about the weight division idea, when only totalweigt is weighed.

Caraman:  You ask whether anyone had sought the advice of AS. I have.

I started a thread about all this a few years ago.  It's here:
https://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t14872-tyre-pressure-monitoring-system-tpms?highlight=TPMS

This is a relevant part, quoting the email reply from AS:

"2. As far as resetting the TPMS to accommodate an user's preferred pressures (i.e. if an owner wishes not to have the TPMS set at Peugeot's generic Boxer settings but at the tyre manufacturer's recommended settings based on actual axle loads) AutoSleepers say that the Peugeot Homologation and External Relations Team advise that "The tyre pressures that the customer wishes to have (provided that they have authorisation from the tyre manufacturer) can be recorded into the TPMS ECU. To do this the vehicle will need to go to an authorised repairer who has access to a diagnostic tool"  [That's a special TMPS electronic tool, not the usual programme.]"

Cymro

Pity Peugeot didn't follow MB's TPMS system, 44 sec user adjustment method.

PLOUGHLIN wrote:Pity Peugeot didn't follow MB's TPMS system, 44 sec user adjustment method.

Oh yes!!

I'm now beginning to wonder about what will happen when the time comes (probably next year) when I shall have to change my tyres because of their age. Normally I have new valves fitted with new tyres.

Will I therefore need new metal TPMS valves?
Will my tyre dealer have them or does this force me to buy my tyres with valves from my Peugeot dealer?
Will the new TPMS vales (whoever fits them) need to be calibrated to the vehicle?
And if so, will this require yet another trip to the Peugeot dealer to set the TMPS to my requirements)?

.... and on we go ....
Cymro

Cymro wrote:Caraman:  You ask whether anyone had sought the advice of AS. I have.

I started a thread about all this a few years ago.  It's here:
https://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t14872-tyre-pressure-monitoring-system-tpms?highlight=TPMS

This is a relevant part, quoting the email reply from AS:

"2. As far as resetting the TPMS to accommodate an user's preferred pressures (i.e. if an owner wishes not to have the TPMS set at Peugeot's generic Boxer settings but at the tyre manufacturer's recommended settings based on actual axle loads) AutoSleepers say that the Peugeot Homologation and External Relations Team advise that "The tyre pressures that the customer wishes to have (provided that they have authorisation from the tyre manufacturer) can be recorded into the TPMS ECU. To do this the vehicle will need to go to an authorised repairer who has access to a diagnostic tool"  [That's a special TMPS electronic tool, not the usual programme.]"

Cymro

Thanks Cymro.  An interesting thread.  I have just been told by my Peugeot dealer that they will not alter the TPMS as the tyre pressures are supposed to be 5.0 Bar front 5.5 Bar rear.  I see from 23 Jul 15 that 'Fredcool' was given the same advice.  I also see that in effect you had to sign a disclaimer when your dealer changed your TPMS.  Interesting that they think higher pressures than the ones recommended by Continental will reduce tyre wear.  I wonder if the higher pressures also improve fuel economy.  Last Summer with the plated tyre pressure figures I was consistently getting 35 mpg although over the Winter it has dropped a little.  I wonder whether the Peugeot Homologation team advice from 2015 still applies.  If it does, the AS Homologation Engineer seemed not to know when he told me yesterday that AS could not support any deviation from Peugeot's plated tyre pressure figures.  Yesterday I sent a question about this to Peugeot UK Customer Care using their contacts form.  No answer yet.

just as an extra parallel, Michelin will give customers pressure levels for specific front axle weights but will NOT give the same info for rear tyres, rather just insisting on 79 ish being the 'only recommendation'...perhaps based on the fact than many rear axles are loaded to the max...

however, im happy with the Continental info, lovely smooth ride...