Kingham At The Weighbridge

by Kingham Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:48 am

After picking up the boss lady and loading the van for full holiday mode, I took the opportunity to put the van over Dargavel weighbridge at Dumfries.

2 adults, full diesel, full fresh, 2 sea kayaks, 2 stand up paddle boards, 6 paddles, 2 full sets of paddle kit inc drysuits wetsuits etc, UK holiday clothing for 4 seasons hugegrins

, food & drink, windbreak and the list goes on......

Gross = 3700kg (Max = 4500kg)
Front = 1800kg (Max = 2100kg)
Rear = 1900kg (Max = 2400kg)

We hired mountain bikes on Tiree and carried them in the van between our Croft sites, with no worries of being over loaded.

Loads of capacity left to stick a tow bar and tow bar mounted bike rack on, if I ever get round to it.

by jacktherussell Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:54 pm

Very interesting,I take it you’ve upgraded the weights. Could I ask how you did it and the costs involved?

by StewPotch Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:30 pm

Interesting figures - I done much the same, 2 adults, full diesel and water plus clothes and food for a few days BUT with a 100 kg scooter on the back(plus the weight of the scooter rack).

Gross 3720kg (max 4500)
Front 1660kg (max 2100)
Rear 2040kg (max 2400)
(I know the front & rear figures don’t match the total but I think it is down to the resolution & rounding up/down by the weigh bridge)

Most of our extra weight ‘hangs off’ the back end, out with the wheelbase but I can’t say I’ve noticed any difference with or without it.
SV Tech done the paperwork upgrade - I think it was about £250.

by Kingham Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:30 am

jacktherussell wrote:Very interesting,I take it you’ve upgraded the weights. Could I ask how you did it and the costs involved?

I used JRConsultancy for my paperwork, but had a few problems with him and started to wish I’d paid the extra and gone to SV Tech. At the third attempt, the correct paperwork arrived and without digging out my receipts, I think the cost was £160.

If you’re on the XL chassis, the up-plating is just a paper exercise, raising the maximum gross by 1000kg and the rear axle by 200kg, otherwise physical adaptations are required..... larger wheels, rear air toppers etc

by Weegie Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:40 am

Kingham wrote:I used JRConsultancy for my paperwork, but had a few problems with him...

We also used JRConsultancy and had no problems.

Presumably because you had taken the pain first and for us it was then just an expensive copy and paste exercise.

Tommy.

by jacktherussell Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:17 pm

Thanks very much,I’m going to look into it very soon.
I regularly carry two mountain bikes on a tow bar mounted rack with no problem,apart from the weight penalty.

by PitStopCrew Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:11 pm

has anyone actually been stopped by the old Bill and taken to a weigh bridge? I've no idea what mine weighs fully loaded!

by AutoSleepy_Don Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:05 pm

and don't you need a HGV licence to drive something over 3,500 kg ?

by harrysp Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:46 pm

AutoSleepy_Don wrote:and don't you need a HGV licence to drive something over 3,500 kg ?

Are you thinking of the restrictions after age 70, HGV I think is required for 7.5 ton and over.

by StewPotch Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:01 pm

PitStopCrew wrote:has anyone actually been stopped by the old Bill and taken to a weigh bridge? I've no idea what mine weighs fully loaded!

If, and it’s a big if, you end up in an accident and doing a lot of damage AND you’re well above the badged weight, what might happen?

If in doubt, get it weighed.

by nuevoboy Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:37 pm

All very interesting, but I'm amazed that a panel van such as these could be 4,500 kg.
Have the brakes for instance, been upgraded at all.

by Kingham Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:56 pm

nuevoboy wrote:All very interesting, but I'm amazed that a panel van such as these could be 4,500 kg.
Have the brakes for instance, been upgraded at all.

They don’t need any further upgrading.

The XL chassis comes out of the factory all ready to go at the heavier specs, but are downplated on paper to capture the 3500kg market.

That is why it’s only a paper exercise to take them back to the weight they were built to work at. All above board, all engineer rubber stamped and all perfectly safe and legal.

by Kingham Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:02 pm

AutoSleepy_Don wrote:and don't you need a HGV licence to drive something over 3,500 kg ?

Definitely not.

My standard licence is good to 7500kg and if I remember correctly, an unbraked trailer of 750kg, taking my train weight to 8250kg. I would need to dig the legislation out to confirm the latter.

by PLOUGHLIN Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:20 pm

If you passed your test prior to 1 Jan 1997, you can drive vehicles upto 7500kg with 750kg trailer, or a combined train weight up yo 8250 kg.

If after that date You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).
You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer is not more than 3,500kg. Heavier trailers and you need a E test.

Once you reach 70, with a D4 medical and D2 application you retain the 8259kg limit (ie C1E/D1E licence).

by Kingham Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:38 am

Thanks for confirming that Peter. I’ve never driven anything even close to 8250kg train wt, but had a recollection of it being there.

by Kingham Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:00 am

PitStopCrew wrote:has anyone actually been stopped by the old Bill and taken to a weigh bridge? I've no idea what mine weighs fully loaded!

I can’t speak for the rest of the UK, but before retiring from a NE police force and before VOSA/DVSA got their own powers to stop vehicles, we would often work alongside them on combined operations and did their stopping for them police

They would deal with roadworthiness, we would deal with criminality.

Rightly or wrongly, Motorhomes were never targeted to have their weights checked, simply due to time and resource limitations and priority for safety was heavy commercial and unroadworthy vehicles. A lot of the stops were intelligence led, where breaches of driver hours or vehicle roadworthiness had been reported to the authorities.

A motorhome which looked unroadworthy, or massively overloaded would still attract attention, but marginal over weights wouldn’t always be obvious to the eye and I can’t remember one ever being taken to be weighed.

I believe that due to the massive summer tourist influx, Devon & Cornwall Police regularly run operations, where motorhomes and caravans are safety checked, including weighing if required.

by Guest Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:04 am

Kingham wrote:
nuevoboy wrote:All very interesting, but I'm amazed that a panel van such as these could be 4,500 kg.
Have the brakes for instance, been upgraded at all.
They don’t need any further upgrading.

The XL chassis comes out of the factory all ready to go at the heavier specs, but are downplated on paper to capture the 3500kg market.

That is why it’s only a paper exercise to take them back to the weight they were built to work at. All above board, all engineer rubber stamped and all perfectly safe and legal.

Ive seen this discussion before and I didn't realise that all Kinghams (all 6.36 versions?) come on the 'heavy' chassis....
this is great for those who wish to upgrade when carrying larger loads but may suggest the Kingham is short of payload at 3.5 T....even though the axle weights aren't likely to be breached as they will be the 'heavy' levels...
however, one disadvantage (apart from the slightly harder ride.....stiffer front springs) is that the heavy chassis weighs 40kg more than the light one, which means a down plated heavy Kingham weighs 40 kg more than a genuine 3.5t factory built version.....if there was one...
this means that this model, which may be short of payload, also loses 40kg of this in exchange for 'flexibility up the weight range...
now, for someone wanting to run at 3.5t, this 40kg might be a deal breaker....is the Kingham available on the light chassis?, which would give 40kg more payload at 3.5t?

[th][/th]

by Kingham Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:05 am

Chris,

As far as I know, the Kingham is only built on the XL chassis, in which case if it is returned to 3500kg max, the 40kg would not be an issue, as there isn’t an alternative, it is what it is.

Many would manage with the available payload at 3500kg, but I knew that all of my kit could push it over and I wanted that to be legal, thus the up-plate.

Not many users would have the extra weight of a bespoke ‘side lift & winch’ kayak rack, 2 x 17’ 8” sea kayaks on the roof and 2 x large paddle board bags filling the side door entry while travelling, on top of every inch of available storage being packed tight with kit, clothing and food.

As per my opening post, as this is the fullest the van has been, so I deliberately took it the weighbridge with water and diesel brimmed, to get an idea of the worst case scenario. I was surprised that it only came in at 3700kg.

The point I’m making, is that in normal holiday mode, with all cupboards and storage full, it would be easy to keep the weight under 3500kg without skimping.

by nuevoboy Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:19 am

Thanks for your explanation my query above.
May I just say, well done for getting your rig weighed.
I am surprised just how many folk are driving around with no knowledge whatsoever of their running weight.
One of the first things I did when getting our Nuevo was getting it checked out in full holiday scenario.
I was well within the limits and once I knew the axle weights could also calculate the correct tyre pressures, which happily came down from the dealer specified 80 psi to 43 psi front and 47 psi rear.
And what a difference that made to the ride and handling.

by Guest Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:35 am

that's great that you've got a van plated to accommodate all your kit, exactly what I'd do if required...
my point was merely that the std Kingham has a fairly meagre 433kg of payload from which can be deducted 70kg for the fresh tank and 75kg (or otherwise) for the nominal passenger weight.
so that's down to 288kg with no kit whatsoever on board....not a huge amount.
as I said, it's good that the axle weights won't be breached as they are larger on the heavy chassis, but 288kg isn't a lot for tables, chairs, bikes (possibly), crockery, cutlery, clothes, bedding, food, drink, boots, coats, books, magazines, electrical equipment, leads, BBQ, hotplates, awning/pup tent....etc, etc....
the extra 40kg might have proved useful to someone having to run at 3500kg.....perhaos a factory option?
I wonder if when it comes on a ducato base (aut transmission) there is a fiat light chassis option?
either way, it's a good example to other that you published your weights...
I had my actual van weighed by the dealer in a known state prior to signing up as I wanted to run at 3500kg.
in full race trim we have plenty on each axle (a well balanced van) amd 100kg spare 'wine capacity'....
good luck.

by casey10 Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:28 pm

Kingham wrote:After picking up the boss lady and loading the van for full holiday mode, I took the opportunity to put the van over Dargavel weighbridge at Dumfries.

2 adults, full diesel, full fresh, 2 sea kayaks, 2 stand up paddle boards, 6 paddles, 2 full sets of paddle kit inc drysuits wetsuits etc, UK holiday clothing for 4 seasons , food & drink, windbreak and the list goes on......

Gross = 3700kg (Max = 4500kg)
Front = 1800kg (Max = 2100kg)
Rear = 1900kg (Max = 2400kg)

We hired mountain bikes on Tiree and carried them in the van between our Croft sites, with no worries of being over loaded.

Loads of capacity left to stick a tow bar and tow bar mounted bike rack on, if I ever get round to it.

by PitStopCrew Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:13 pm

presumably the penalty of going heavier on the paperwork is higher tolls and lower speed limits? I think I would rather travel lighter!

by Kingham Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:46 pm

PitStopCrew wrote:presumably the penalty of going heavier on the paperwork is higher tolls and lower speed limits? I think I would rather travel lighter!

UK speed limits are the same, they’re based on unladen weight being less than 3050kg and the up-rate doesn’t change that figure.

Many continental max weight restrictions only apply to goods vehicles, so it’s not as bad as it sounds.

by BartyBoy Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:01 am

PitStopCrew wrote:presumably the penalty of going heavier on the paperwork is higher tolls and lower speed limits? I think I would rather travel lighter!

You forgot to mention one of the main good points :)
Cheaper Tax @ £165 pa...... :)

by inspiredron Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:15 am

PitStopCrew wrote:presumably the penalty of going heavier on the paperwork is higher tolls and lower speed limits? I think I would rather travel lighter!

The other significant penalty is the 3.5 tonne limit on quite a lot of roads, particularly in France. Over 3500 sometimes MUST use the motorway.

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