Symbol washroom door design flaw

by Dbvwt Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:50 am

I am more than happy with my new Symbol but one thing I soon noticed was that the washroom door catch was a bit hard to close. It didn’t bother me so I put investigating the problem off till today.

It turns out that there is a gap at the top between the door and wall which doesn’t allow the top catch to engage properly.
I first thought that the door was warped but it is actually caused by the whole wall bending in at the top so that it fixes to the internal plastic moulding of the washroom. Everything looks well finished off and fixed correctly so I can only deduct that this is a design flaw!!

I can do a couple of mods which will sort the issue (as I know taking it back to the dealer will be a complete waste of time) but just wanted your thoughts on the issue.
Hopefully the photos will explain things better.

David

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by Gromit Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:28 am

Hi David

I think I would suggest that you contact your dealer before doing anything. At least get them to sanction any action you propose, just in case it gets a lot more serious and they refuse to do warranty work after you have "interfered"!

Our door has a standard catch just like a household door, which is far stronger and more positive. I don't know if you could fit one to yours, but it seems to me a far better option than those plastic rods and rotating catches.

See what others think, as I have no experience of your model or its fittings.

by AutoSleepy_Don Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:40 am

The door looks bent in the first photo. I would try a warranty claim for a new door.

It is not meant to be like that and it may deteriorate further over time so I would get it fixed within the warranty period (3 years?). Possibly have the first hab check done at AS service centre in the Cotswolds and get them to fix.

by Dbvwt Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:40 pm

Thanks for the replies.

Gromit, good point about running it past the dealer first.
My first thought was to get rid of the awful plastic rod setup (which rattles in transit!) and fit a simple door catch as you mention. Why on earth are the simple solutions not fitted as standard?

AS_Don, trust me, the door is as straight as it could possibly be despite my original assumption that it was the door. It’s the wall that curves inwards, have a close look at the second picture and compare the wall to the van back door.

by TJB Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:23 pm

I had a 2016 Symbol and the door fitted much better than yours, although it wasn’t perfect, but the catch pulled it flush when closed. I would take it to your dealer and ask them to sort it. I would recommend using the service centre at the factory in Willersey. It’s not too far from you. From personal experience, they seem to know what they are doing and have come across most issues and of course mainly deal with Autosleepers. Warranty claims would be easier through them and they will have direct access to any parts, especially if they need to replace the wall.

by Spospe Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:47 pm

This is a manufacturing fault. From the age of the vehicle it must be under warranty. Take it to the dealer and ask for it to be put right. It is not a DIY job.

by Dbvwt Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:02 pm

Thank you so much for your replies, I know deep down that this is a dealer issue but also know that for £10 I can fix this myself to a standard well beyond anything the dealer would be bothered with.
For warranty reasons I will see what the dealer has to say.

by malc45 Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:33 pm

Hi
I must agree the door must be reasonably flat because there is long hinge which is known as a piano
hinge which as you know runs the full length of the door.
This type of hinge does not not like doors which are not flat and would make all sorts of creaking
and cracking noises when fully opened this also applies to the fixed panel the hinge is screwed to.
The fixed panel must be going inwards from the opening edge of the door.
Malc.

by Paramedic Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:47 pm

Dbvwt wrote:
I first thought that the door was warped but it is actually caused by the whole wall bending in at the top so that it fixes to the internal plastic moulding of the washroom. Everything looks well finished off and fixed correctly so I can only deduct that this is a design flaw!!

David

Wow, that gap at the top of the door really hits you in the face. IMO that's poor build quality rather than an any design fault. We may tend to correct very small defects rather than bother with the hassle of chasing a warranty claim from say, a distant dealer. But if your wall has the defect you suggest, then certainly it requires a complete rebuild. I personally wouldn't accept anything less. Regards.

by Dbvwt Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:02 pm

Malc, thanks for the reply, the door is 100% flat as I’ve had a 2m metal straight edge against it.
The wall bend (despite not sitting flush with the door) is a work of art and is finished perfectly with the plastic moulding in the washroom!
The door has a degree of flexibility hence my £10 fix that would be a better job than A/S have done with the cheap plastic rod job!

My worry is that I’m a bit of a sorry perfectionist and letting anyone else work on my van (even main dealer,warranty etc..) would result in a poor job that I would lovingly do better!!

by Dbvwt Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:11 pm

Paramedic, thanks for your input, the photo does indeed look dreadful but it is not as bad as it looks. The door will take up the gap with minimal stress on it hence my £10 simple fix.
I can only imagine the mess AS would make rebuilding it!!

by Gromit Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:14 pm

Hi David

In fairness to Mark Burdett and his team at the Service Centre, I think they would make a good job of it for you, but I confess to the same feelings as yourself.

I've done most of the mods on our vans myself, although for anything significant I always get it sanctioned by our dealer, just as cover for the future.

Looking at your photos it appears that the door can be persuaded to close quite adequately, if not perfectly flush, and that a decent catch is the most important modification it requires. On that basis I would do the same as you intend.

Good luck with it, whatever you finally decide.

by Dbvwt Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:24 pm

Thanks Gromit, I know 100% that the fix I intend to do (and the same fix you suggest) will work and not cause any issues but I guess I just needed a bit of reassurance so thank you.
Mark at A/S sounds like a top man and I would like to run the issue past him. Am I able to go direct or does it have to go through the dealer?

by Dbvwt Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:35 am

Totally agree with you kaspian.

I’ve had a chance in the 5 weeks owning the van to poke my inquisitive nose into lots of nooks and crannies just to actually see what the build quality is like.
In the previous 5 months while looking for my new van I also did this with many different makes and models. In A/S defence there is still a big gap IMO with the quality compared to many others which were frankly shocking.
However, the whole industry needs to up its game as far as I’m concerned. The build quality of my Symbol is good (door issue apart) but this should be an absolute minimum!!

Anyway, thanks everyone for your thoughts, I will contact dealer/AS in the new year and report back if anyone is interested.

by malc45 Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:51 pm

Going slightly of topic but the hinge on the washroom door has been mentioned. The hinge is made
from stainless steel which is a good thing but the long edges on my Symbol were as sharp as a razor.
I found this out the hard way with a deep cut to my finger. I removed the hinge and filed the edges to
prevent it happing again.
Malc.

by Liam Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:43 pm

Dbvwt wrote:Thanks Gromit, I know 100% that the fix I intend to do (and the same fix you suggest) will work and not cause any issues but I guess I just needed a bit of reassurance so thank you.
Mark at A/S sounds like a top man and I would like to run the issue past him. Am I able to go direct or does it have to go through the dealer?

It is perfectly acceptable to approach Mark Burdett at the AS Service centre but you must get the agreement of your original supplying dealer in the first instance - the contract you have is with the supplying dealer.
In my experience dealers are very happy to provide such agreement as it gets the issue off their plate onto AS direct.

by Gromit Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:05 pm

Thanks Liam

I missed that question from David, but I am pleased to hear that he is generally satisfied with his Autosleeper.

It's very easy to criticise, and there's no doubt many of the complaints are fully justified, but there will always be some problems with such a complex vehicle, much of which is hand built.

As David said, A/S are not perfect by any means, but they are better than many others. That is no excuse for complacency, but for every complaint we hear about, you can bet there are very many more owners who have never experienced that particular problem.

by Liam Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:16 pm

kaspian wrote:Nothing complex about fitting a perfectly flat door to a curved bathroom wall Gromit. Just another perfect example of total lack of quality control and lack of pride in personal workmanship seen all too often. Even if it just happened once it is once too often. This is simply a design flaw , however dark your welding goggles or size of A/s flag to wave.
Come the New Year , you never know , someone might gave given the QC bods at A/s some new glasses from Specsavers! Happy New Year everyone!

I am sure you will concede that there is, of course, always the possibility that something may have occurred to cause the wall to curve since the vehicle was produced and delivered to the owner?
From a Design Flaw perspective - AS must have produced a considerable number of this model already and there has been no reports, to my knowledge, of such incidents which would suggest to me that the basic design is sound.

by kaspian Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:43 pm

Hi Liam from the original post , it is said the wall curves to perfectly follow the moulding of the shower cubicle. Why cant we just accept there are rogue vans out there and not always go down the well trodden frankly tiring route of it could have been anyone / thing apart from poor build? Perhaps a curved door is normally fitted to this model and a straight one fitted in error by the factory? Perhaps the top catch should be fitted further inboard and the top latch is not pulling the door in far enough? An operative who currently has no experience of the Symbol asked to fit the bathroom cubicle and followed the moulding in error rather than build it in straight?
Yes there are a 1000 reasons for it not being a factory error but on a new van I know which one I would put my money on....We should all be standing with one voice to try and get A/s to address the all too common quality issues appearing. It can only be good in the long run for us all with increased residual values come trade in time. up!

by AutoSleepy_Don Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:01 pm

In addition to AS Quality Control, it should have been picked up during PDI by a good dealer. So we can't pass this off as just an unsupervised trainee.

The first photo looks dreadfull given the door is straight.
I imagine that will require the bathroom wall to be redone (TBC I have no idea).

by Dbvwt Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:14 am

Happy New Year everyone.

I had missed all the recent replies, was too busy in the van getting my facts as correct as possible before sending off an email to the dealer then hopefully A/S direct.

My initial thoughts of doing a fix have now changed and I feel it must now be dealt with properly (Autosleeper not dealer).
The gap is still my biggest concern and is 90% due to the wall being pulled in at the top and fixed to the shower moulding. The bend is nowhere near as bad at each end (the hinge end and wall end by back door - hope that makes sense), just the middle. There is actually a very small bend in the door that I hadn’t noticed but it is not enough to cause the problem.
I knew the top catch wasn’t locating already, but on closer inspection the bottom catch is just as bad!

Autosleepy_Don, it is also my thought that the bathroom wall will need redoing.

It is such a shame as to date I am very happy with the van apart from this. As mentioned though I really don’t know how this got out of the factory.

by Dbvwt Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:48 am

I just thought I would post the conclusion to my issue, we tend to mainly hear about negatives on forums but credit where it’s due.

After contacting my dealer and asking for a case to be raised with A/S, I was quickly contacted by Mark and we arranged for me to take the van in for investigation the following week.
The conclusion was that the washroom had been fitted with a twist in it and the end wall needed moving over (apparently they drop a ready built washroom straight into the van at the factory).
A/S needed a couple of days to remove various cupboards/wardrobe and straighten the wall. They were able to do the work immediately but due to my own commitments, I booked it in last week.

I picked up the van yesterday and I’m totally happy with the work, Mark and his team have done a great job. The whole experience to sort out a pretty serious issue has been as painless as it possibly could have been.
I have read plenty of good things about Mark and I genuinely feel that his attitude played a big part in my experience running so smoothly. IMO he will be a massive loss to A/S.
David.

by Paramedic Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:49 am

Excellent outcome and your patience has been rewarded. up!

Symbol washroom door design flaw

Symbol washroom door design flaw

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Re: Symbol washroom door design flaw

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Re: Symbol washroom door design flaw

Re: Symbol washroom door design flaw

Re: Symbol washroom door design flaw