Room heater 2003 Symbol short run time

Hi all 

Thanks all for your thoughts re gas.

Having a few issues with the heating on my van.  When on its great and warms everything up in no time.

But since I want to use it all year around I’d like to be able to leave it on all night - with the thermostat set low so that it just kicks in now and then to stop me freezing.

But although it seems fine re gas usage the fan seems to drain my leisure battery really quickly and doesn’t last long and leaves me cold in the morning.

Hi Fredric

Thank you for the response.

I’ll have to take a look as to type - thought it was a Truma system?

Not really using much power since I’ve refitted with LED lights and don’t have a TV.  Fridge is on gas when parked and use a kettle on gas for hot water.  Have a 12V radio.

So am surprised and thats why I wondered whether it was the heater fan?

Was told the Gel leisure battery was new (85ah). 

But I never plug into the mains - don’t use commercial pitches and don’t have anywhere near my flat to park and connect so its only getting solar charge (100W panel) and journeys of around 100 miles at a time.  So wondering if it just never gets much of a charge at the moment?

So am thinking about purchasing a second battery which I can keep portable and then charge at home and then when in the van use a battery to battery set up?  Have seen a few portable units but way to expensive for me so something simple/DIY is needed!

Might this make sense?

Rob

(Off out to walk to my van to check the type.)

Hi Frederic

As I’m sure you already know -you’re right its Propex.

rob

Check out the Propex web site for info on 2003 blown air units 
Perhaps others on  this site with a Symbol from the early 2000's will be more informative 
Our experience with Propex was in our Raport Wish we had a Propex in our Duetto not the power hungry Eberspacher, !!!
frederic

Will do but have also sent a message to the solar company to check the compatibility of the controller with my Gel battery - after your feed back beginning to think the battery just isn’t being fully charged.  Rob

I suggest you also check whether the van’s charging system can cope with the gel battery. We fitted one in our 2007 exec and it seemed to charge OK but didn’t last very well. Turns out our charger was not designed for gel batteries.

Thanks everyone 

I am thinking of replacing the gel leisure battery with a more traditional type. Any issues with any types being under the seat?

Also don’t want to waste the gel battery since it’s apparently new.  So have wondered about making it portable and charging it up at home and then taking it with me as an extra.

But have heard there are issues with connecting two batteries together - ages, capacities and types and having one wired into the solar presumably complicates things further?

So is there anyone with the knowledge about how I’d set this up or would it just be too complicated or expensive.

I’m quite practical and fine doing most things once I know what I should be doing!

Rob

I'm surprised that you are getting so little run-time - I had a Propex in my Rapport a few years ago, and, with a good battery it would run for many hours without a problem, though the gas cost was exorbitant as I was paying Camping Gaz prices!

First thing I would do is to charge the battery with an independent charger (not the one built into the van) that's compatible with gel batteries and see how long it runs for. Then you will know if the problem is with the charging system or the battery. My guess is that, although described as "new", it is probably knackered - in all probability by being left fully discharged for weeks or months - but I should stress that that's just complete guesswork.

The idea of getting a second battery for off-hookup camping will work only if your solar system can charge two batteries instead of one on a day's worth of solar input - unless you are also doing a lot of miles every day and the split charge can make a decent contribution. If you plan to wild camp in midwinter, you can expect to need quite a lot of solar panel capacity to be self-sufficient in power, and you are likely to need a panel arrangement that allows for tilting while the sun is so low in the sky (or alternatively, a lot of panels!).

Incidentally, my experience of Webasto/Eber diesel heaters is that they are not especially power-hungry once the van is up to temperature and they are running at low power level.

Very true with the Eber's but one really needs a separate thermostat as I believe that the temperature controlling one in most setups is located in the heater return/input air pipe, this makes it most insensitive. One of our members with a  2010 Topaz had this additional stat fitted and I believe he is well pleased with the performance. Large cross section writing between heater and battery is also a priority and virtually all A/S models with Eber's are wanting in this respect!
frederic

For the sake of accuracy, and in order not to unduly influence a potential purchaser with negative comments about Ebers, the manual says; 
Startup demand less than 100watts (<8A for about two minutes) ;
Full power demand 34watts (3A ) giving 2,200watts output; 
High power demand 23watts (2A) giving 1800watts output.
Medium power demand 12watts (1A) giving 1200watts output.
Low power demand 8watts (0.3A) giving 850watts output.

We have, on a few occasions, had the Eber ticking over all night with an approx. total battery consumption of about 3 to 4 Amp Hours from a 105 AH battery. 
Keith

The Erber in our 2008/9 Topaz was situated under the drivers foot well and the return air input was taken from the drivers cab step side, possibly one of the coldest places in the interior. So we found that control of the main living area was very difficult. The person with the 2010 Topaz I believe had a seperate independent stat. fitted somewhere within the main living area so as to give a representative indication of the actual temperature experienced.
We have had three vehicles with the Erber. A couple with the Propex gas blower and two with the best of all a Fanmaster.
frederic

{drifting a little off the original topic now}

Agreed about the controller - the equivalent Webasto is exactly the same, in that the entry-level "thermostat" is really just a hi->low heat output control, with the actual thermostat in the inlet of the heater itself and, as with the Eberspachers, you need to be very precise with the control knob to get any accuracy.

I did think about upgrading to a proper remote thermostat, but concluded that there were better things that I needed to spend money on instead! I still might yet, though.

Ok time to purchase a battery charger - although did just test the voltage of the battery and was at 12.2V.

Rob

(Am still talking about the leisure battery)

Looking at Photonic Universe manual for my dual battery solar controller it gives 3 setting, switchable in the controller, 1st Sealed, 2nd, Gel and 3 Flooded. I suspect this is not that critical, but IMHO with 100w solar and decent engine (alternator) running times over 100 miles you should have enough power for most needs.
Try this. Tomorrow night, on hr or so after dark, with no loads on the leisure battery at all, measure the actual voltage, the battery should have been fully charged from your last run unless it was a long time ago, and from that day's solar input.
Are you absolutely sure there is no standing load on the leisure battery? To check this, do as above, then disconnect the battery, leave 20 mins or so then measure again. If there is a higher voltage at the second reading, there must be a standing load, if not and the readings are more or less the same then there is not 

As an example, we have a 150w solar, dual charge controller and a 110Ah lead acid leisure battery. both it and the starter battery are both full by lunchtime, assuming reasonable solar conditions. We never use a hook-up and have used the (Truma) heating overnight on several occasions. In the morning after that and before the solar starts to work the LB voltage has never been below 12.5v

Hi Ian

Thanks for the advice - I ended up taking both batteries out and took them to my friendly motor factors and they charged them up and tested them.  

Starter battery seems fine - they just think I don’t use it enough and its been the cold weather.  All seems fine since last Thursday and so am going to just give it a few more runs!

I will check for a drain on the battery sometime soon.

I also might still change my solar controller for a duel battery type to help maintain the starter battery as well.

The Gel Leisure battery when tested was useless under load so changed which gave me the excuse to squeeze in a 110 batttery and again over the last week have not seen any significant drop even when leaving heating on over night.

So warm and all working well - thanks everyone for the helpful advice.

Rob