Failure of internal freshwater pump

I have an A/s Symbol 2014
The water tank was filled the previous day. Pump was pressurising system and supplying the taps satisfactorily. A while later when tried there was no response. I checked the fuse which appears intact. Water tank is nearly full. No other evidence of malfunction except the no-function. Any ideas?

Hi X4Sailors
It's probably the fresh water tank internal pump that has failed.
Just check if the loo flush is working as they use the same fuse.
You can replace the fuse and the loo flush will work but don't switch the pump on as this will blow the fuse.
We changed our pump a couple of weeks ago as it suddenly stopped working.
Yo will have to drop the tank to get at it.
Good luck
Wallis3

Wallis3 wrote:Hi X4Sailors
It's probably the fresh water tank internal pump that has failed.
Just check if the loo flush is working as they use the same fuse.
You can replace the fuse and the loo flush will work but don't switch the pump on as this will blow the fuse.
We changed our pump a couple of weeks ago as it suddenly stopped working.
Yo will have to drop the tank to get at it.
Good luck
Wallis3

Not necessarily if you take up Hog's excellent idea.  It works for him! 

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X4Sailors wrote:I have an A/s Symbol 2014
The water tank was filled the previous day. Pump was pressurising system and supplying the taps satisfactorily. A while later when tried there was no response. I checked the fuse which appears intact. Water tank is nearly full. No other evidence of malfunction except the no-function. Any ideas?

Exactly what happened to me. On emoment it worked and the next Zilch.  No apparent warning but dead.  I replaced it with a Shurflo which is much quieter but noyt yet tested in anger as I have not been in th evan since replacing it.  And I had pooh-poohed all th ereported problems before it happened to me.

inspiredron wrote:Exactly what happened to me. On emoment it worked and the next Zilch.  No apparent warning but dead.  I replaced it with a Shurflo which is much quieter but noyt yet tested in anger as I have not been in th evan since replacing it.  And I had pooh-poohed all the reported problems before it happened to me.

You did indeed Ron, and a right pain in the ar$e you were too! 

Good on yer for confessing though. You go up even higher in my estimation. Most people would have kept quiet. 

I think you will be well pleased with the Shurflo. As I've said many times, they just work without any faff or hassle. Ours gives a slightly increased flow rate too, which is a bonus, and if it should ever go wrong you only need a screwdriver and a few minutes to replace it.

Having had 2 submersibles working impeccably for a total of 17 years is it surprising that I could see no reason to question them in the terms that you were. At one stage I wondered if you owned Shurflo .  However, it does seem that the quality has gone down since my 11 year old no problems submersible on the Hymer.  I am not sure about your increased flow rate - the flow is certainly smoother and I do notice seems quicker on the hot than on the cold but I suspect that is because the hot tank acts as a pressurised source for a short time.  But overall I think that the flow is slightly slower - but I have not yet filled a glass or kettle and I cannot do a proper comparison now.
I have gained some space in the locker behind the driver as I have lost the pressure switch from the floor and I managed to mount the Shurflo on the Wardrobe wall and next to the leisure battery box which I moved 1 cm so that it did not touch the pump body. I also tidied up A/S pipe runs to take less space.
Moggyminor's notes suggested that I neded to get to the very bottom of the wardrobe which, on mine, meant that I removed the front - not too difficult but a total pig to get back afterwards and actually unnecessary in the event.  In that cavity was my reserve location if the pump was too big to go where I did fit it. I did not bring the wires up through the floor there as they formed part of the main loom from where the cable from the pump was joined - instead I joined a length of cable to where the submersible was connected to the loom and fed that up through a gap in the floor alongside the corner of the gas bottle locker nearest the leisure battery, joining that cable to the short pump wires. It is th ewhite wire in my picture that can just be seen emerging from the pipes mass. I joined the two wires to the old pressure switch and pulled those back to the base of the wardrobe under the Truma heater.  Shurflo recommend that you have at least 30cms of flexible pipe between pump and semi-rigid piping, to keep noise down. Fortunately the 12mm semi rigid pipe (I used Whale with the blue line as used by A/S) is a reasonably snug fit into 1/2 inch clear flexible reinforced hose and can be made pressure tight with 2 jubilee clips and a reasonable overlap.  Getting a good seal on that flexible hose was my only issue.  Jubilee clips can feel fully tight when it is merely the worm drive binding. I found out the hard way that you need to use a touch of lubricant on the thread and tighten them to smaller than needed BEFORE you slacken them off again to fit them over the pipe and tighten - and that applies to the Shurflo barbed fittings as well.
Dave - if you want to add the above to Moggy's instructions on the Fact Sheets by all means do. 
Here is a picture of the location before replacing the battery box.  You can see one of my leaks!  The wires were tidied up a little as were the bits of reinforced half inch pipe.  Hope this helps somebody else.
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inspiredron wrote:Dave - if you want to add the above to Moggy's instructions on the Fact Sheets by all means do. 

Thanks Ron

Have done. Alternative suggestions are always useful to someone. 

Many thanks to everyone who replied to my query.
I have to confess that the solution was much simpler than I thought. In my Symbol there is a switch panel almost hidden in the cupboard under the cooker. I had not realised that the switches have to be on for the functions to work; that the function required does not come on simply because it has been switched on at the touch panel. It was only after extensive re-reading of the van's manual that I realised that I should check the lower switch panel. Sure enough, the water pump switch was in the off position! It must have been inadvertently switched off some time when something had been retrieved from the cupboard.
It's obvious we are new to the motorhoming game. Ah well, we live and learn - I hope!

No apologies needed.

If any of us pretends we never made a similar novice mistake, don't believe them . . . . unless it's me of course! 

Don't know what all the fuss is about, in my swift I had a submersible pump for 7 years without failure although a couple of times it cavitated but as the tank was under a seat it was just a case of taking the access cap of and give the pump a shake.
On my Broadway I have not had any problems "BUT" taking onboard other members problems I will buy a sure flow and the required bits just incase, any electrical component can fail but don't feel like dropping the underslung tank to replace it.

I would just connect the pipework and cable from the submersible to the sureflow and remove the pressure switch.
Incidentaly I have noticed this last week when I have been off hook up and reliant on the solar that in the mornings the pump runs continuously when the leisure voltage is low, rather than adjusting the pressure switch I just turn of the pump until the voltage rises, would I get this problem with the Sureflow?

The Shurflo pump in my Montana started to splutter after a couple of years of being idle. So fitted a new one as there was a leak from the pump head. The system has  no water heater and one cold tap in the sink tended to surge so I fitted a Seaflo accumulator after the pump in the system and now works really well. I have since fitted a Truma outside shower point where I now plug in a stand alone Kamper Gyser gas powered water heater. I have another ‘van which uses the submersible  pump  system and fined just as good

AndyRoyd wrote:Don't know what all the fuss is about, in my swift I had a submersible pump for 7 years without failure although a couple of times it cavitated but as the tank was under a seat it was just a case of taking the access cap of and give the pump a shake.
On my Broadway I have not had any problems "BUT" taking onboard other members problems I will buy a sure flow and the required bits just incase, any electrical component can fail but don't feel like dropping the underslung tank to replace it.

That's the crucial point Barry - not much of a problem if you have access.

Latest theory (and I concede, it is only a theory) is that the angle at which the submersible pump sits is critical. If it's either vertical or horizontal, it will work well and give no trouble. However, if it sits at around 45 degrees to the horizontal there may be room within the body of the pump for an air lock to form around the impeller. That would completely disable its self priming function.

The solution A/S were suggesting sounds logical here. The sloshing around of the water while running the van round the block with a half full tank would tend to displace the air lock - if not completely, then enough for the impeller to get a "bite".

Your remedy of giving the pump a shake further lends credence to the theory.

AndyRoyd wrote: . . . when I have been off hook up and reliant on the solar that in the mornings the pump runs continuously when the leisure voltage is low, rather than adjusting the pressure switch I just turn of the pump until the voltage rises, would I get this problem with the Sureflow?

This is a very common problem, and is a feature of the pressure switch, rather than a fault with the pump. These switches are very sensitive to voltage, and if it drops even slightly it can send them out of adjustment.

As far as I know the inbuilt pressure switch on a Shurflo is much more forgiving. I've never heard of anyone having the problem.

Arguably the biggest advantage of a Shurflo is the ease with which it can be replaced if it should ever go wrong. A few minutes with a screwdriver, as opposed to dropping the tank and all that entails!

Hope this helps.

At home, not on hook up, pump working ok. We went off for three days at a CL. Hooked up. Tried sink tap - nothing. Checked switches and fuse - Ok. Switched off pump as not functioning. Spent two days using back up water containers. Towards end of second day on a whim tried switching on water pump - it worked! Water flow fine. Continued to work ok. Arrived back home - not on hook up - everything still working fine. Checked fuse in toilet - ok. Everything still working fine.
From the various comments from contributors (many thanks for these) it seems to me it is a pressure or voltage problem, or combination of both. Not being any kind of mechanic I have no wish to go through the pump replacement procedure if it can be avoided (in our case the water tank would have to be removed).
I have located a white knob on a fitting near the Truma water heater which appears to be a pressure adjustment device. Would an adjustment to this be a good idea and if so how should I go about it?

The pressure switch often needs adjustment when changing from mains to 12v. Only turn it the tiniest amount at a time.

X4Sailors wrote:
I have located a white knob on a fitting near the Truma water heater which appears to be a pressure adjustment device. Would an adjustment to this be a good idea and if so how should I go about it?

There is quite a lot about adjusting the water pressure switch in the AS handbook. It's in chapter 7 "Connection of services" in my handbook, Symbol is likely the same.

Thanks, Don.
I have read the manual again and also the copy of the Whale instruction/installation leaflet I have. My difficulty has always been that they seem to refer, at least some of the time, to a kind of pump I don't have (eg "shake pump under water"). The pump is in the freshwater tank and completely inaccessible except by some fairly major operation. From the diagram in the installation leaflet the pressure switch I have is clearly the in-line pressure switch type. The "adjusting screw" is, in fact, a plastic knurled knob. This was another source of confusion. Another thing, does turning the adjusting knob clockwise cause an increase or decrease in pressure? How does a change in voltage affect the pressure ie should one expect a lowering or rising of the pressure with an increase in the voltage?
In general I have found the manual less helpful than it might be. For example, I spent some time analysing then rewriting the heating instructions to make them more easily and quickly accessible.
At the moment the water pump is operating satisfactorily. If the system fails again I'll have a better idea as to what to do.
Ron

Water pump has been working fine under all conditions (mostly parked at home but tested occasionally) and for first evening at a camp site where we filled the freshwater tank. Next morning working ok at first. Then when tried later to fill kettle - nothing. Went through all the procedures recommended in the handbook ie adjusting the pressure switch as well as trying various electric supply changes (eg switched off fridge; disconnected power hook up). Fuses checked inc. toilet fuse - both ok. Gave up. Used back-up containers. Still not working at first following morning. Tried it later about midmorning - worked ok. Has been working ever since - for the rest of the time we were away (for 10 days) and when we came back a few days ago (on the 21st). Used the van the next evening but just for local transport (pump not used).
Just been out to check if pump was working - it was not! Fuse still ok; water tank about 3/4 full.
My conclusion - pump is just attention seeking. Anyone any better ideas?

It all depends on whether you are happy to live with the constant uncertainty.

I wouldn't be, which is why we changed to the Shurflo.

HERE HERE  DAVE   100% agree!!!  Regards    Paul