Ignition failure

We had jus returned from a trip to the Costa Del Sol. I was saaying to my wife how well our old van was running and that we had managed about 25MPH.

Well, we were let down as we could not start to come off the ferry at Portsmouth; red faces all round!

The RAC diagnosed a coil pack failure and arranged an uplift for us. I normally do my own repairs, but trusted this one to a well known and trusted garage near my home. still waiting for the result as I told the garage that we were in no hurry and they are very busy.

Firstly, let me comment on Brittany Ferries' staff. Helpful and attentive, the shift manager even offered me his home number if I had problems. The RAC technician was switched on and efficient with all necessary equipment. The recovery contractor, A1 Recovery was prompt and very helpful; all helping to reduce our stress.

Do any members have experience of this problem?
Why would Peugeot mount a coil on a cylinder head where it is subjected to repeated healing and cooling, not the best environment for an electrical component?

Bill

My van is of 1995 vintage.
To the best of my knowledge it has the original coil pack and it is still working fine [touches wood].
Considering that it has so far lasted 27+ years, then perhaps this location is not such a bad place to put it?

Its probably there because that is where the distributor was on earlier versions of the engine.

Frank

Yes, almost certainly a spot vacated when distributors were displaced, on the end of the camshaft.

I am hoping this is not the start of a string of failures. I am going to replace the crank and cam sensors as a precaution. Some components may fail through age rather than mileage.

boxerman wrote:
Considering that it has so far lasted 27+ years, then perhaps this location is not such a bad place to put it?

That should have been 22+ years I think I'm being more affected by old age than the van is

Frank

Bill Silvester wrote:
I am hoping this is not the start of a string of failures. I am going to replace the crank and cam sensors as a precaution. Some components may fail through age rather than mileage.

Cam sensor? what / where is that?

Frank

There is a cam sensor listed for this vehicle on Euro Car parts stock list. I have not located one and maybe not fitted as this is an earlyish electonic system. Most modern systems have both crank and cam sensors

I've had the head off mine a couple of times and I haven't found one.

BTW I think they list an anti - knock sensor too - but I couldn't find one. Neither could Frank Massey.

Frank

Strange.

I have part numbers for Delphi and Marelli sensors.

Could be that they are omitted on some variants. I need to find out if this is so. I will pick the brains of my motor trade friends. 

I will certainly do the crank one anyway

My manual pages for the Magneti Maralli 8P ECU & EFI system list sensors for:

Crank angle
Air temp & coolant temp
Knock sensor [some models]
Manifold Absolute Pressure
Throttle position
Vehicle speed
Oxygen sensor

No mention of cam sensors.

BTW The crank angle sensor takes it's pulses from the flywheel and is directly below the coil pack.

Frank

Thanks for  the info.

I do not quite understand how the coils are switched.
Frank.
That is a great help, thanks.

There must be 2 sensors at 180 degrees, one switching cyls 1 and 4 and another 2 and 3

Or maybe 2 magnets and they have opposite polarities?

Is your manual MM specific or a Haynes one covering several systems?

I need to buy one

Bill Silvester wrote:Thanks for  the info.

I do not quite understand how the coils are switched.
Frank.
That is a great help, thanks.

There must be 2 sensors at 180 degrees, one switching cyls 1 and 4 and another 2 and 3

No - its a wasted spark system, the coil pack is basically two double-ended coils. 1 and 3 spark together as do 2 and 4.
Only one crank angle sensor needed.

Is your manual MM specific or a Haynes one covering several systems?

It is the relevant pages for the MM 8P system which someone scanned from a  Haynes EFI manual, which as you say, covers several systems.

I need to buy one

The guy who scanned them said it was a trade only publication. Whether it is or not, I do not know. There is nothing on my copies to indicate the title of the book or in fact that it is a Haynes publication - its just the layout of the text and diagrams is very reminiscent of a Haynes manual.
I would be happy to scan a couple of relevant pages for you if you say which ones you need,, but there are rather a lot of them and to be brutally honest, I have no wish to scan them all.

Frank

Thanks.

Perhaps if you could scan the crankshaft sensor connections and coil pack ones?

I must pour over the diagrams on the net. Need to know how the injection sequence is done, but the ignition is my immediate interest.

Phil

Bill Silvester wrote:Thanks.

Perhaps if you could scan the crankshaft sensor connections and coil pack ones?

PM me your email address to send them to - it won't be tonight though!

I must pour over the diagrams on the net. Need to know how the injection sequence is done, but the ignition is my immediate interest.

Phil

All injectors fire at the same time.

Frank

Yes, saw that on a fuzzy image of the controller connections. So could be triggered from crank sensors

My email is [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Bill

On their way!
BTW - not a good idea to publish your email add on a public forum. I would edit that out now if I were you.
That's why I said to PM it to me.

Frank