LPG Adaptor/Filling Cylinders at Gas Station

Does anyone have one of these adaptors for filling standard gas cylinders from LPG nozzles at Gas Stations?

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There are others available even cheaper that just fit UK and Dutch dispenser nozzles, but this £45 one is a kit of adaptors to suit all European nozzles.

I started off looking for full conversion kits like Gaslow. Then found that Gasit was a recommended one and also used by Autosleepers. Then I stumbled on these things.
The smallish cylinders in our 2001 Symbol are stored in a cupboard inside. A super-dooper proper purpose built conversion, that allows fixed bottles to be refilled with a hose situated externally, would be nice if it wasn't so damned expensive. So, as It's so little hassle to pull out a couple of small cylinders from inside the van and top them up with them stood on a gas station forecourt... this little kit looks like the perfect tight-wad solution.
I know nothing about these things. Are they safe, rated by campervan owners, covered by all regs (including EU countries), and if you get dodgy looks when filling cylinders on forecourts either in UK or EU? 
Great thing? Or... not even with a 10 foot barge-pole?

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO
You must NOT try to refill a standard propane bottle unless you want to chance starting a fire either at th egarage or in your van.
If you overfill - and how will you know not to without either an 80% cut-of valve or some scales to weigh the cylinder plus gas - when you turn on the cooker you are likely to get liquid gas coming out of the burner and a SHEET of flame.
PLEASE don't do it!

I think the final line on the advert says it all.

Davy

So how is this different from filling an underslung LPG tank.  This question is asked in the hope of receiving some balanced, factual information.......not abuse!!
Keith

Ah PLOUGHLIN... that's just the info I've been looking for. Thanks

I think... for me.... "also contravening UK Health and Safety Regulations, Weights and Measures Regulations and Consumer Safety legislation."
..... just says it all. 
Ah well... back to the drawing board.


What's the most economic alternative then?

How much gas do you use annually? Do you spend long abroad so can't get refills?

Unless you spend £££ on a refillable gas bottle installation, you are stuck with Calor or similar bottles and refill prices.

Depending on your usage and systems chosen would take a long time to recoup the cost. The "convenience" of a refillable system  depends on your usage.

KMRTOPAZ wrote:So how is this different from filling an underslung LPG tank.  This question is asked in the hope of receiving some balanced, factual information.......not abuse!!
Keith

My understanding is.......

An underslung LPG tank has a built in 80% cut off valve. It is designed to be filled from autogas pumps and cuts off when 80% full, as do cars running on autogas.

These adaptors, as per the ebay link have NO 80 % cut off valve and do not cut off at 80% with possible dangerous / life threatening results.

In any event, most autogas points will not allow you to use these adaptors anyway on a loose bottle, but sadly it doesn't stop them being on sale.

When Calor and other LPG companies refill their own bottles, they have the equipment to ensure a maximum 80% fill at their refill facility.

These bottles are legal to use  and are designed to be refilled but are quite expensive....

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PLOUGHLIN wrote:How much gas do you use annually? Do you spend long abroad so can't get refills?

Unless you spend £££ on a refillable gas bottle installation, you are stuck with Calor or similar bottles and refill prices.

Depending on your usage and systems chosen would take a long time to recoup the cost. The "convenience" of a refillable system  depends on your usage.

This is the salient question.....do you need a refillable one, at all.
Yes, looking at the 'advert' this makes refils attractive, at about a quarter of the exchange Calor price.
However, this is only sensible if the tank being filled is designed to cut off the fill when the bottle/tank is 80% full.
proper installations are available as tanks (Autogas 2000, Cak tanks?) or bottles from Gaslow, Gasit.
Some caravanners are using a standalone bottle from Safefill (clear plastic to aid guaging levels) or from Gaslow (Direct Fill) as they can be taken to an LPG station in the car....however, garages are getting a bit more fussy and many only allow a fill via a filler in a side skirt.....with those even in gas lockers being questioned...
Exchange bottles are heavy, expensive and not swappable abroad....however, they're easily available here.
If you always use sites, put everything on the single hotplate and wouldn't dream of turning the gas on for heating, then you won't use much and, even abroad, it sounds like it would last you...
However, if you wild camp, use temp holiday sites or rallies, cook with gas, use Aires abroad, stay for months etc, then finding a replacement of Calor ran out is a pain .....so, this is when folk look at a refillable system.
They aren't cheap, but you really don't need two bottles where refilling is easy....all over Europe....after all, do you have two diesel tanks?
I have one 11kg Gaslow with the filler in the skirt, and a set of euro adaptors to convert my fill point to receive various pump designs...
We do use Aires, THS sites, CLs, and don't have a hotplate on our hob, we tour extensively abroad, not necessarily on sites, so having gas access to gas is important...
For us, a refillable is not about payback time, but much more to do with the convenience of getting gas where we want, when we want (all over Europe) without having to either wait for an empty bottle or give some gas back.....or even carry multiple bottles for different countries....
The fact that the gas is about a quarter of the price per ltr (compared to a 6kg Calor) is the icing on the cake.

A guy was flying along in his aeroplane when the engine stopped. He jumped out and pulled the parachute ripcord.

Disappointingly nothing happened. As he was plummeting earthwards, much to his surprise he saw another guy going the other way, straight up!

He shouted across to him "do you know anything about parachutes?" The other guy said NO! Do YOU know anything about gas cylinders..............................!!

OK an old one.

I have the Gasit kit which covers all of Europe, about £30 I recall, to fill my underslung tank.

It is one of the biggest no-no's there is to even consider filling returnable cylinders. The re-fillable ones all have a float valve stopping them being filled over 80% capacity.

If you only ever go to UK, then the cheapest option is Calor propane in exchangable tanks. if you go abroad, then, realistically you need a refillable option, such as Gasit or Gaslow etc

KMRTOPAZ wrote:So how is this different from filling an underslung LPG tank.  This question is asked in the hope of receiving some balanced, factual information.......not abuse!!
Keith

Who would want to give you abuse Keith? If you don't know the answer it's only sensible to ask. 

I think your query has been answered, but no one has mentioned Safefill, which is a cheaper alternative, fully complies with all the regulations, and in some ways more convenient than Gaslow and the like. No holes in the side of the van for example, and the LPG level is instantly visible through the translucent walls of the cylinder. No unreliable gauge necessary!  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hi Pilchard

If you are looking for a set up which is convenient (possible even) to use abroad, one of these for the princely sum of £5.40 (plus postage) is the best solution I know of. Used it ourselves for some years and it worked a treat.



Available from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You go over the Channel with only one (full) bottle on board, then you buy an own brand bottle from Intermarche for one euro (plus the cost of the gas of course). The adaptor screws onto the French bottle and converts the fitting so your existing Calor pigtail screws straight into it. No hoses or regulators to change or fiddle with - couldn't be a lot easier!

Then you use the French bottle, and save your Calor bottle for when the Intermarche one runs out and you need to get a replacement. (The 21.8 LH fitting is widespread in Europe, so you would OK in Spain or wherever.)

One big advantage of the adaptor - you can walk into Intermarche (or other distributor) with it in your pocket, and try it on the bottle to be sure it fits before you buy it. (Left hand thread don't forget!)

I am really sorry if you took my 5 NO's as abuse. Not intended - it was to emphasise the danger which I then went on to describe briefly..

Gromit

Best solution yet seen!

Wish I'd have thought of it, but, previous Mh had only space for one bottle in the locker.

Nice one

inspiredron wrote:I am really sorry if you took my 5 NO's as abuse. Not intended - it was to emphasise the danger which I then went on to describe briefly..

Ah - I understand KMRTOPAZ's response now. I'm surprised he took offence Ron, but that's the problem with the written word alone - without the benefit of face to face contact. It can so easily be misconstrued.

By his own free admission Pilchard knows nothing about gas cylinders, so I'm sure you were right to make the point very strongly. To those with no experience or understanding of refillable versus exchange cylinders, it's very easy to become seduced by the irresponsible adverts which appear on eBay. There was a caveat it's true, but it would not necessarily mean much to someone in Pilchard's situation.

Thank goodness he had the good sense to ask on here first, or we may well have been hearing of a tragedy in the future. Once again this forum has been of enormous benefit to a member. 

Don’t apologise Ron for giving sensible information. Self decanting of standard cylinders is a safety Nono

Gromit wrote:

KMRTOPAZ wrote:So how is this different from filling an underslung LPG tank.  This question is asked in the hope of receiving some balanced, factual information.......not abuse!!
Keith

Who would want to give you abuse Keith? If you don't know the answer it's only sensible to ask. 

I think your query has been answered, but no one has mentioned Safefill, which is a cheaper alternative, fully complies with all the regulations, and in some ways more convenient than Gaslow and the like. No holes in the side of the van for example, and the LPG level is instantly visible through the translucent walls of the cylinder. No unreliable gauge necessary!  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You missed this then, Dave.....  

"Some caravanners are using a standalone bottle from Safefill (clear plastic to aid guaging levels) or from Gaslow (Direct Fill) as they can be taken to an LPG station in the car....however, garages are getting a bit more fussy and many only allow a fill via a filler in a side skirt.....with those even in gas lockers being questioned...."

No - I carefully ignored it to avoid giving offence, as you can't spell "gauging". 

(And if you believe that, you will believe anything!  )

Worth mentioning that Safefill provide documentation, including diagrams I believe, to reassure garage forecourt attendants that they are completely "legal" refillables.

inspiredron wrote:
If you overfill - and how will you know not to without either an 80% cut-of valve or some scales to weigh the cylinder plus gas

As a point of information, 1 litre of LPG weights 0.51KG so it is technically possible to gauge the 80% fill without an 80% cut off valve or scales.

So, if your filling an empty 6KG bottle, these contain 6KG of LPG when <=80% full.  You would stop when the pump shows 12 litres (or less). That is 6KG and that would satisify the 80% rule.

I'm not advocating anyone does this, I'm just doing science.  


(Doning body armour and raising riot shield)

If anyone does do it, can I ask them to display a big sign on the side of their van . . . so I can find a pitch at the other end of the campsite!

I'm sure I've read about some who use luggage scales to 'accurately' measure by weight to fill an empty (non refillable) bottle....hmmmm.

Gauging
Gauging
Gauging
Gauging
Gauging
Gauging
Gauging
Gauging
Gauging
Gauging

I refer you all to the guy with the unfortunate parachute.......................

Play with anything, except brakes on the Mh, don't play with gas!
Says an ex Oil and Gas design engineer!!

AutoSleepy_Don wrote:

inspiredron wrote:
If you overfill - and how will you know not to without either an 80% cut-of valve or some scales to weigh the cylinder plus gas

As a point of information, 1 litre of LPG weights 0.51KG so it is technically possible to gauge the 80% fill without an 80% cut off valve or scales.

So, if your filling an empty 6KG bottle, these contain 6KG of LPG when <=80% full.  You would stop when the pump shows 12 litres (or less). That is 6KG and that would satisify the 80% rule.

I'm not advocating anyone does this, I'm just doing science.  


(Doning body armour and raising riot shield)

But when a cylinder is "empty" does it really take a full 12 litres?  I would feel happier to have the cylinder on a pair of scales - and what garage (in their right mind -said very quietly)) will allow that?

Sorry for late input on a thread I started, but have not abandoned. I don't seem to get email notifications on some threads. Is ther a tab somewhere?

Anyway... Gromit... what a star you are! I've been around the block a bit, but no-one ever showed me one of those.
You have me sussed I think. Impecunious, tight even... but not mad. That brass adaptor really is the feller. Am so exited, I just bought one!
Of course, had I the money I'd go for the full monty delux Gaslow/Gasit underslung or in cbd jobs. But I don't.
I'm not trying to save money on gas particularly, nor is it the added convenience of filling up on gas in a garage forecourt. It's that the europeans don't use the same screw fitting on their cylinders... so you can't swap a Calor for one of theirs.
I've lived in Italy and this thing has just reminded me what we did for bottled gas while we were there. It's so simple I could kick myself. I just bought an Italian regulator and swapped it over on the hose. Is that simple or what? But the little brass jobbie is a neat solution.
The pain in the backside is I'll have to go out with just one Calor cylinder and when it runs out, I'll have to dump it and buy two full cylinders, the cost of which would be elevated by only a few euros for the cylinders, unlike the £40+ each Calor charges.... rip-offs!. That means when I get back home to the UK, I'll have to find another empty Calor cylinder. My local scrapyard gave me a perfectly good empty one last year.

So it's not all doom and gloom. Thanks Grommit.

But back to that refilling cylinders adaptor idea that I was going to kill myself with... apparently. I normally find that inanimate object only become dangerous when in the hands of idiots or psychopaths.
I used to be CORGI registered, and no-one ever complained that I'd gassed or killed them. Now, there are certain refillables advertized as lovely and safe cos they prevent you from filling over 80%, thereby not filling the space in the top of the bottle that is vital for the compressed and liquid gas below evaporating into the gas that can be safely burnt. There are other refillables advertized as lovely and safe cos you can see how much gas you are putting in but.... a very big BUT here....What if you are blind, or it's dark and rainy when you fill it? What if you don't know... no-one told you, or you are stupid? What if you want till kill someone in the ensuing fireball and claim the insurance? What if even.... you fill your Gaslow/Gasit cylinder and then lay it on it's side or it falls over? Hopefully that last one is covered by an inbuilt cut-out.

So, going back to the very naughty adaptor valve... in the hands of the wrong people, I agree, a lethal weapon. But...
Anyway if gas stations are beginning to stop people filling ANY portable cylinder... then it's a moot point. But have you ever seen anyone come out of the warm of their little haven behind the till and take a stroll to see what folks are up to? 

Have I explained my requirements clearly?