Duetto v Symbol v Symphony

Having taken a camper around NZ, and then South America, we've decided to buy a camper van for the UK.  Looking at the various options, the Autosleeper PVC seems to be the best option for us, as its not too big, has a good layout, and most importantly at our age has a toilet!

We're doing a bit of research and I was directed onto this ASOC by a member, who's also on another site.

As our budget is about £15 +/- a bit for the right one, we are looking at 1999-2002 models.  But I'm finding it a bit difficult to collate all the pros and cons of the three models, the Duetto, the Symphony and the Symbol.

From what I've read, the layouts are pretty much the same on each.  But then I've become aware that the Duetto on the transit is really prone to rust, but that the Duetto is rumoured to have slightly longer beds.  Diesel is probably better than petrol for mpg and torque, but some cities are restricting its use.  Ford parts for the Duetto are cheap and readily available, but the transit has major security issues with poor door locks.  Some models have two ring cookers, some three (although that's not really an isue; in South America we managed on a single ring portable stove.  2 rings and an oven is plenty).   We probably would never use the shower.  We would prefer to use the bed as a double, so are they all equally easy to set up/take down.  Is storage the same in all models.  Work surfaces and heights.  When is it high mileage on a diesel engine, a petrol engine.  Etc etc etc.

I'm hoping that a club like this, dedicated to the autosleeper, could give me run down of the major pro's and cons, differences and similarities between the 3 models, in the 1999-2002 plates.  Any help would be most appreciated, as it will really help me narrow down the search.

I'd like to help, but the major issue is that very very few people here will have owned all 3 of these vans, so there are likely to be few who know all of the variants of each (bearing in mind that each has been built on different versions of the base vehicle over many years) that well.

And, of course, what one person considers a major pro or con, another might consider insignificant.

So... the only real way to figure out what you will like or not is to go and look at examples of each.

Even the generalisations - such as "the Transit has major issues with door locks" - may not tell you that much. I owned Transits for around 30 years, and I never once had any issues with security of the door locks!

I think from a camping point of view, all three are much the same.

I had a 1999 Duetto and it was an excellent van, I prefer rear wheel drive. The earlier ones didn't have a turbo and that makes a big difference to the drivability. Rust was a problem at 5 years old so..... still there are plenty of each of those models still fully active.

I think, if it was me, I'd keep my choice open to all three, just looking to find one that's been well looked after.

I think it was me that pointed you in this direction. There have been previous threads asking similar questions, I'll point you to some here...

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Thank you for the info guys. It’s a tricky one to answer I know, so I appreciate the help.

Realistically its going to be a diesel from that selection. I wouldn't worry re diesel in cities, not for the life of most MH's at least. 

Several reasons, the cities planning to ban it are probably worth avoiding at all costs anyway. The cities that are planning to ban it will still need white van man to keep them re supplied etc.
For circa 3 tons or 3.5 tons petrol is a no-no anyway IMHO. 

As to mileage I hold a differing view to some. Some will tell you that so and so diesel is good for 200000, 300000 miles etc, and the engine probably is..........But it's not all about engine, for those hundreds of thousands of miles, the suspension has to work as do the brakes, as do the door hinges, the seats have to be sat in, I could go on.......!

That said a vehicle of the age you are looking at will probably be fine at up to 100000miles with few problems. Any it had will have gone away years ago.

Being more serious for a moment, I'd have a full AA check done on the planned purchase, just did exactly that before buying my current MH, bought at 9700miles BTW, and was impressed with the depth of the inspection and the detail in the report. Cost is more or less irrelevant when you think it through.

Good luck with whatever you buy. 

Ian

I recently traded in my 2002 Symbol, these are based on the Peugeot boxer van.
At the time I bought it in 2002, I didn't even know Peugeot made vans and I was skeptical of the Boxer base vehicle. It proved itself beyond any doubt to be an excellent base vehicle. 

When I traded it in 2017 it had no rust or mechanical issues.

We"re delighted with our 1996 Duetto. It has (had?) some rust issues, and we have had a great deal of welding done, so hopefully it will last us many more years yet.

I'm slightly surprised about the comments about the Duetto bed being larger; it may be a good size width wise but its only just long enough for me - I'm 5'8". My 4'10" wife has no such concerns, obviously.

Mechanically the Transit bits of the Duetto are built to last, and spares are easy to get hold of. 

I suspect that any of the models you are looking at will do you well; its a question of finding a good one at a good price at the right time.

Rolyan wrote:Thank you for the info guys. It’s a tricky one to answer I know, so I appreciate the help.  

Hi and welcome to the forum from Bridlington, have you thought about having deadlocks fitted to the doors, my 2010 Duetto ( being delivered 31/2/18) has them on all doors.
Boaby

Bed making is similarly easy in all three models when making the double , with various infills. If you are OK with a narrow"ish" double you can leave the infills at home. We use ours with the beds as two long singles as it makes night time wandering so much better. As stated earlier we only have experience of the Symbol, which is the smallest but has an excellent 2.2 104 BHP turbo engine which returns 28-32 mpg.

I sold my 1999 Symbol 3 years ago, a bit older than what you are looking for. It cost me around £1200 to replace rust and rotten chassis and  body panel seals etc. I had to change the gearbox oil as water had got in and the petrol engine to me seemed gutless. The interior was the best though. I’ve not had a Duetto but would, like others, not be put off by security issues and As someone said get an AA check for any problems, rust etc. I would also look at the Topaz on the VW as a much better unit all round but a bit pricey. I have a Montana pop top on a Mercedes which I will never sell but a bit to small for your use and you have to rough it a bit And only single beds, no shower or hot water!  As everyone has said, rust is the biggest problem in this country you will have buying here due to our climate and the amount of salt we use on our roads. Good luck on your search

We chose a Duetto (both on a MK5 and a MK7 Transit) because we could sleep across the width of the van and not have to move the front seats at all in order to make up the bed. Depending on how tall the OP is, this might be a significant factor.

The Transit is a very well supported vehicle and as has been mentioned previously, spares are relatively cheap. There is a good forum for all marks of Transit at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It can be a bit rumbustious at times, but there is a great deal of practical help to be had there (much more so than the Peugeot equivalent, I have found).

We are 5ft 10 and 5ft 5 respectively, so anyone of similar heights will find that they can sleep across the width of a Duetto (only just, but you will fit). This gives three significant benefits.

1) The three infill cushions needed to make up the full length lengthways bed can be left at home, freeing up considerable storage space in the van.

2) The double bed can be made-up of just the settee and the single travel seat in about 30 seconds (when two people work together). The bed can be put away easily by one person in the morning.

3) Because the front seats do not need to be moved at all, moving off in an emergency situation for any reason is easy.

We had a MK5 Transit Duetto for 7 years and a MK7 for 6, during which time we used the vans for about 4½ months a year and racked up over 120,000 miles (including going to the North Cape of Norway 4 times).

The above was first posted by myself on the MMM Forum.

Peter Brown wrote:I think from a camping point of view, all three are much the same.  

I had a 1999 Duetto and it was an excellent van, I prefer rear wheel drive.  The earlier ones didn't have a turbo and that makes a big difference to the drivability.  Rust was a problem at 5 years old so..... still there are plenty of each of those models still fully active.

I think, if it was me, I'd keep my choice open to all three, just looking to find one that's been well looked after.

Having owned both 2.5Di and 2.5TDi i'm not sure i agree with that Peter. Whilst i never expected sports car performance i certainly expected a bit more "oomph" when i went to a turbo model....but was disappointed. However my non-turbo van was a swb model and being a Leisuredrive conversion, internal fitments were much lighter than what AS fit but for such an 'agricultural lump' as the 2.5Di, it was a surprisingly sprightly engine and gave excellent mpg (better than the TDi).

The Duetto is quite a heavy van when fully loaded (water + fuel). If anything by far the best improvement to my TDi engine was after the Epic fuel pump failed and as they are no longer made, had no alternative but to fit a Bosch mechanical fuel pump. Slightly noisier than the Epic at low revs but much more efficient, very responsive with no lag. Best of all (in my opinion) fitting the Bosch mechanical pump meant i got rid of the stupid Ford 'fly by wire' electronic throttle and i now have a 'proper' normal throttle cable! Dirt cheap to replace if it breaks as well.

As for 'which one' to answer poster Rolyans question, i can only speak for the Duetto and mine is on the Mk5 Transit chassis, registered 2000. As others have mentioned, rust is the main issue with Fords....wheel arches, top of driver/passenger door by quarter light which rust and split, and rear door bottom edges. Often it's only cosmetic and easily addressed but needs to be taken into account if viewing any of this model. A point worth mention here is my Duetto is the LE version which had a few 'bits' not found on standard Mk5 Duetto's. Large Heki 2 rooflight installed, gas hob had a toughened glass lid and hob, cooker and sink were finished in a dark green. The sink also has a gold finished mixer tap which contrasts nicely.

But most importantly, the LE versions were rust treated from new with Dinitrol........and it works! All four wheel arches on my van are original and still look like new. The underside of the van is in the words of the MOT garage i go to, "the best Transit of that year they've seen in a long time with absolutely zero rust".

Duetto Mk5 models also hold their value well.