Some Basics Beginner Questions

Morning all,

First post here - looks like there is an absolute wealth of information on these forms so I look forward to exploring. Anyway, a few basics.

After a trip to the Motorhome show this past week at the NEC we totally confused ourselves with what we wanted. Had gone there with some key requirements and came away with minds totally lost ... Given this would be our very first camper we were concerned about firstly spending big money and secondly owning something that despite being under 6m (a requirement) still felt a little on the large size (low profile).

For the past year I've been on/off looking at the AutoSleeper (older) range (Symbol for example) although knew it may be more difficult to convince the wife (she had her eyes on something a little bit posher) ... We have now come to the agreement that for our current needs something like the Symbol would tick most of our boxes. 

Going to look at one on Monday (2002 model, 81k miles) .... A few questions

 - assume at some point you can install solar panel to the top of the van? 
 - can these vans take a large (or second) leisure battery
 - the one we are going for is gas heating, any comments on its ability to heat the van 
 - anything to look for when we view that would be a potential problem in future
 - while we won't be travelling to Northern Norway there may be times the van will be used over winter in the UK (sub zero I'm sure) ... How well does the piping cope? 


Again apologies if the questions seem basic, but hopefully a few pointers will help us further in our decision .. 

cheers,

Nigel

Welcome Nigel.

Ask away and your questions will be answered , but it's better to ask them one at a time - in the appropriate sub menu. That way you are far more likely to get informed advice, and none of your questions will be overlooked.

To answer some of yours now.
- assume at some point you can install solar panel to the top of the van? Yes.

- can these vans take a large (or second) leisure battery. Why? If you have a solar panel you won't need one.

- the one we are going for is gas heating, any comments on its ability to heat the van. Gas is always more efficient than electricity, so it should be OK. You might like to consider a re-fillable gas bottle instead of a second battery. Far more useful.

- anything to look for when we view that would be a potential problem in future. Apart from the obvious on an older van, wait for a Symbol owner to comment.

- while we won't be travelling to Northern Norway there may be times the van will be used over winter in the UK (sub zero I'm sure) ... How well does the piping cope? As above. There are always ways round a problem, but best to wait until you have it before you try to cure it. Saves a lot of money that way.

Good luck.

Hi and welcome to the forum from Bridlington 
Boaby

Hi Nigel and welcome to the forum from Leicestershire  .

from Warrington

Hi Nigel and a big welcome to the forum, good luck with your search and Gromit has given good answers to your questions 

I have only had an Autosleeper for a short time so don't know what a Symbol is but as <6m is one of our ESSENTIAL points I will comment as a Nuevo owner.

My very first van was a VW T25. I really didn't know how I would cope with such a large vehicle. Then I looked at the dimensions and it was actually shorter (but wider) than my car of the time! I then moved to a Transit and again worried about how I would cope with the wider Nuevo. After we had placed the order for a Nuevo we hired a coachbuilt for 4 days to see how I coped on the understanding we could change our order to a panel van. Within half an hour I knew the coachbuilt was right for us.

This is not trying to persuade you away from a Symbol, just pointing out that you may get on with a larger van equally well.

dbroada wrote:This is not trying to persuade you away from a Symbol, just pointing out that you may get on with a larger van equally well.

But it could be sound advice Dave even if you were, based on your practical experience and that of a majority of motorhomers.

You certainly get better value for money with a coachbuilt, and they are usually much better insulated which addresses one of Nigel's key questions.

It is surprising how a bigger van shrinks after a short time. I used to drive coaches and busses but when I first got this MH it seemed huge. It has now shrunk to a point where I use it almost daily with little regard for its dimensions. Does catch me out for parking now and again but not often.

Hi Nigel

I suppose it largely depends on what your budget is. I paid £17,000 privately for my 2003 Symbol which I'm very happy with.  It had 45,000 on the clock when I got it last August but I've only put about another 500 miles on it since then.  You mention that you are going to view a 2002 Symbol with 81,000 miles on the clock.  Although you could say that's only an average of 5500 a year and is not a lot considering that its 15 years old, I personally would be looking at a lower mileage campervan myself.  If it has an outstanding service history it might be OK but the bodywork would have to be totally rust free and the interior in very good condition.   If there is anything you want to know about the Symbol before you buy one, just let me know and I'll try and answer any questions you may have.

Same advice as Dave. I've also owned two small panel van conversions before my present Nuevo, and although they were both adequate at the time, I certainly wouldn't go back to one now. My older Nuevo is a little shorter and narrower than new ones. But I would imagine the extra length of the latest version is in the cab front end, more rigorous regulations regarding pedestrian safety I guess. I think the habitation length is just the same.
Al.

I think that you may be going too small with a Symbol.
There is not a lot of room inside if you plan to use in winter.
A Nuevo is only about 2 foot longer and you will soon get used to that. Nuevo will give you more space, comfort and storage. It will also be more up to date than the Symbol you refer to.
I have owned a number of AS motorhomes over the years though I have not owned a Nuevo.
I now travel alone except for my dog and bought a 60 reg Symbol but soon found it too small for winter use. I now have a Warwick Duo. I made an expensive mistake buying a Symbol.
You may be better looking at a AS Clubman if you are buying second hand.

Why not hire a small coach built for a week. Should not be too expensive at this time of year, it might save you an expensive mistake.

This is my personal opinion and I am sure there will be many Symbol owners that disagree.

Good luck and happy travelling whatever you decide.

Christine

Just noticed that someone on the forum is selling a Warwick Duo 09 reg. Looks a good buy for someone.

You'll find it near the bottom of this website in the classified section.

I downsized to a Symbol last year from a coach built. Had owned a Symphony previous to the coach built and really missed the compactness. Love our Symphony and manage easily 4 months away at a time in Europe..Bought it a year ago,,2002 with 28000 miles on the clock,,now 34000. Diesel heater,,refillable gas bottle and two chequer plate storage boxes on the rear with cycles mounted above..Off next month to Spain Portugal and return via France,,If i was you i would look for a lower mileage if you are thinking of keeping it...Enjoy,,BUSBY65.

I'm not saying I don't miss compactness. My wife and I spent 6 months, 180 consecutive days touring New Zealand in a tiny Mazda Bongo, and loved every minute! It's just that we've now got used to the airiness of a coach built, even though it's a relatively small coach built..
Al.

Thanks for all the welcomes and of course the advice ... all very useful .. Perhaps also a little context ... 

As a landscape photographer I plan 50% of the van's use to be for me out doing my job and that at times will most likely mean wild camping in tucked away spots .. it's one of the reasons why we are happy (I think) to go for something very compact ... I look at even the smallest low profiles and then look at some of the places I visit and just get concerned that the van either won't go, or will draw attention ... At most for this stage I think we will be using it for about 2 weeks at a time .. most of the time it would be 2-3 day trips .... 

Agree that we would prefer a lower milage van .... will certainly be interesting to se this one today (if it's still available) ...

I went through the same process some years ago and currently have a 61 plate Dorset, which is essentially the same as a Symbol. As to size it is 5.4 m long and is great for one person, but I would be reluctant to use it for a long period for 2; try hiring a similar sized van conversion first. Here are some lessons I learnt.

Low mileage is not necessarily good as vans are made for high mileages, and not to sit in a drive for most of the year; in doing so as a motorhome adds significant weight to the base vehicle their wheel bearings can become compressed, as I found out with the first van I owned. That was a 54 plate Citroen Relay and the well known problems with water ingress to the engine had resulted in corrosion to the gear linkage, so make sure you have a full examination for a private purchase, or a comprehensive warranty from a dealer. As with all used vehicles a full service record is essential.

I have a solar panel fitted and never need to put the battery on change over the winter.

I too take landscape photographs and use the van all year, both off and on sites, with its size being ideal for narrow roads in Wales and the highlands and islands of Scotland. I had the external water pipes lagged and a heater put into the fresh water tank. The waste water tank is laced with a food grade anti freeze if prolonged freezing temperatures are encountered, and I also heat the hot water prior to settling down for the night.

I hope this helps and that you enjoy motor homing as much as I do.

Roger

I omitted to mention that I replaced the two gas bottles with an 11.5 litre refillable one, as there was insufficient room under the vehicle for a larger one. That size is the largest that fits into the existing cabinet, and I installed the filler inside the cabinet securing it to the side; I don't know if this is possible in earlier models or whether there are any implications in placement of the filler for foreign travel. Whilst there is a good distribution of LPG stations in England they are sparse is Scotland, and whilst there are several web sites giving addresses it is best to check in advance as I have come across several that have discontinued supply, or have the pump awaiting repair. Finally the provided magnetic content gauge is very basic and only registers a drop in the level when it is about 3/4 empty. The advantages are a much cheaper price for gas, and freed up space in the locker for electric cable and ramps.

Roger

What a good idea of Rogers using food grade antifreeze in the waste tank. Never thought of that re Norway etc. 
That saying we still learn something everyday is very true.

Hi Nigel, welcome to the forum from S. Yorkshire.
Mel

TheTravellersCookeBook wrote:Agree that we would prefer a lower mileage van .... will certainly be interesting to se this one today (if it's still available) ...

Assuming it's diesel which most are, mileage isn't too much of an issue. A decent diesel engine kept well maintained is easily capable of clocking up 200,000 or more. At 81k the van you are looking at has only averaged 5,400 a year which is nothing though common for motorhomes where owners also have a car. I'd be more concerned about maintenance and expect the owner to produce a decent history of all work done on the van plus parts. Mileage does affect price obviously......but it's worth bearing in mind a motorhome with reasonable mileage for year will often prove a better buy than one with very low mileage which has spent most of it's life standing on a driveway!

Look for overall condition body and mechanical, and record history.

we have owned a 2011 Symbol ES since last November. I thought we wanted a coach built van but we hired one in Devon and I found it too big for a lot of places we wanted to go (it was wide and 7M long). Hiring it was the best thing we did....
We brought the Symbol ES as it has 4 belted seats, makes the bed a bit more fussy but is very comfortable. Ours has diesel heating (and electric when plugged in) and seems very nice and warm. It also has a refillable cylinder (had to have it serviced as it was leaking, would have been cheaper to replace it) as well as a normal cylinder.
At first I thought there was not enough space in the van but actually there is a lot of hidden storage. Will report back in June when we have been away in her for 4 weeks!
The symbol is very easy to drive and fits anywhere a van can go. Ours has the raised roof, I had a look at the current version at the NEC and it seemed short on head room and limited on the bed arrangement. In fact didn't like it as much as ours!

So far very pleased with it!
Mike

Thanks Mike ... so we really liked the layout of the Symbol (2002) we saw today .. but decided against it .... felt a little bit rushed overall but so pleased we went to look at it as it looks to be the perfect van for our needs right now .... I guess now we keep our eyes on the market going forward ...

Hi Nigel

As a frequent winter user of a motorhome I would recommend a second leisure battery.  This is because a solar panel on a typical grey winter day produces far less energy than it would on a typical summers day.  In addition you will need more power as you will be using more power i.e. heating and lighting.  You can reduce demand by converting all your internal lighting to LED etc.  If you do fit a solar panel go for the biggest one or even 2 that you can fit on the roof and make sure the controller is an MPT type as these are far more efficient.
Good luck in your search for a van but bear in mind you can never find one that meets all your needs.

Regards

Steve

Welcome Steve. Please introduce yourself in the "Welcome Section" and tell us a bit about yourself.

Your advice above depends on whether people go winter camping without a hook-up, which I would think most do not. Wild camping in winter is always going to be problematic, since solar panels work best when we need them least - and vice versa as you say.