Problem with water

We have a 2016 Kingham. When we fill the water tank we have difficulty in getting the water to the taps and toilet. It's like it has an air lock. Is there anyway of rectifying this as it does take a fair while for the water to run.
Thank you

Firstly, when we fill our tank/ system from empty, at home, I bleed the air out at the sinks and shower, cold then hot. It can take a few minutes to get rid of all the air until the flow is clean.
Secondly, and I have only noticed this on some sites, after topping up the tank, I sometimes find the water won't flow as expected. It is as if it is aerated like soda water and wont pump cleanly. Only had it a few times but its been every time on some sites. I've assumed that the water is coming in via the hose full of air and find that simply waiting a few minutes for any air bubbles to surface in the tank all becomes normal and it pumps ok.

I regret to say it's a fairly common problem with the submersible pumps A/S are now using. It was taking up to half an hour to coax ours into life, and it got so bad that I had it replaced with a Shurflo diaphragm pump, but the water tank has to be dropped to remove or replace the submersible. Not good news if your pump fails on the first day of a holiday in France - see dbroada's recent post on exactly this problem.

Not one of their best innovations - for us as consumers anyway. A submersible pump costs about £12 whereas a Shurflo costs around £50. Could this be why A/S are fitting them?? They buy so many they probably get them for a fiver!

Never had any problem with submersible pumps in 15 years so perhaps I have been lucky. And my fresh tank has an access cap on the bottom. May still be a challenge to route the electrics though if it does need replacement!

Gromit wrote:Not good news if your pump fails on the first day of a holiday in France - see dbroada's recent post on exactly this problem.

I didn't actually comment in public. That most practical of plasticine dogs encouraged me to keep trying by pm and eventually it sprang into life. This happend about half way through our holiday and it was fortunate that by that time we were on the part that didn't have us needing on board water but either a few sites sooner or later would have been a problem.

Until I saw my mention I was just going to encourage you to keep trying. Mine is a 2016 Nuevo but I expect the plumbing is similar.

I should have said, I turned the pump on for a few minutes at a time opening various taps. During the rest periods I   a lot and when I thought the pump had  a long enough rest I repeated the sequence. Eventually I got a bit more of a trickle, the pump quietened a bit and pretty soon normal sevice was resumed.

We had actually let the tank run dry this time but other than that I did everything the same as I had previously.

dbroada wrote:

Gromit wrote:Not good news if your pump fails on the first day of a holiday in France - see dbroada's recent post on exactly this problem.

I didn't actually comment in public. That most practical of plasticine dogs encouraged me to keep trying by pm and eventually it sprang into life. This happend about half way through our holiday and it was fortunate that by that time we were on the part that didn't have us needing on board water but either a few sites sooner or later would have been a problem.

Until I saw my mention I was just going to encourage you to keep trying. Mine is a 2016 Nuevo but I expect the plumbing is similar.

We did 9 weeks last year without running water. Used a couple of 5 litre bottles and a jug,,,no real problem,,BUSBY65.

busby65 wrote:

dbroada wrote:

Gromit wrote:Not good news if your pump fails on the first day of a holiday in France - see dbroada's recent post on exactly this problem.

I didn't actually comment in public. That most practical of plasticine dogs encouraged me to keep trying by pm and eventually it sprang into life. This happend about half way through our holiday and it was fortunate that by that time we were on the part that didn't have us needing on board water but either a few sites sooner or later would have been a problem.

Until I saw my mention I was just going to encourage you to keep trying. Mine is a 2016 Nuevo but I expect the plumbing is similar.

We did 9 weeks last year without running water. Used a couple of 5 litre bottles and a jug,,,no real problem,,BUSBY65.

We also managed for a few days when our pump stopped working completely.. Yes you can manage, especially if you happen to be on a site with a toilet block and wash up facilities, but we sometimes use CLs, CSs and no facility sites...... Impossible to shower in the van and much more difficult to wash / wash up without running water. I find it hard to accept that I paid Autosleeper around £50,000 for a vehicle who's water system can fail and we end up washing up just as we did when we were tent campers.... Especially when the root cause seems to be that AS have chosen to fit a cheap in tank whale pump rather than a more reliable but more expensive underbed Shureflo..

WHS ^.

Our pump stopped while on a site where we could use their facilities. Prior to that we were to be camping at a racing circuit with unknown facilities. Likewise we are on our way to a different circuit, again with unknown facilities.

The first site didn't have ANY facilities, including a place for us to camp so we went elsewhere but we could have been there with a full tank of water and no means of shifting it.

Justus2 wrote: I find it hard to accept that I paid Autosleeper around £50,000 for a vehicle who's water system can fail and we end up washing up just as we did when we were tent campers.... Especially when the root cause seems to be that AS have chosen to fit a cheap in tank whale pump rather than a more reliable but more expensive underbed Shureflo..

Quite agree Justus, but I've highlighted in red the absolutely crucial point at issue!

If (when!! ) the submersible pump packs up, almost certainly while on holiday 'cos that's the time when they are in use, it's a major job to get at it. It requires the use of a hoist or a pit, since the van must be elevated before there's room to drop the tank. Not something to contemplate in the middle of a French field!!

If the underbed Shurflo ever gives up, it takes seconds to lift the bed base, and only half an hour to replace it, using nothing more sophisticated than a screwdriver, and your thumbnail on the release collar of the push-fit pipework.

That's where I think Messrs A/S have been so  thoughtless and inconsiderate to their customers. Unintentionally I'm sure, but it's a pity someone didn't have the common sense to say, "What if??"

Gromit wrote:
That's where I think Messrs A/S have been so  thoughtless and inconsiderate to their customers. Unintentionally I'm sure, but it's a pity someone didn't have the common sense to say, "What if??"

Not that I would, or could compare A/S with Swift, but Swift had the bottle to launch and monitor an owner's forum (Swift Talk) where stuff like this could be openly raised, discussed and if appropriate, forwarded to their design engineers.

They came in for a lot of flack on occasion and some forum members were banned for being too critical/vociferous, but overall it gave end users a voice and the occasional design change, which could only improve the product.

I'm looking forward to ordering a Kingham next Friday, but already I'm expecting problems with the water delivery, which could so easily be addressed if A/S participated in this forum and took on board valid criticism of design issues from end users.

Ken.

I've been following this thread with interest and as a newby contemplating our first motorhome, I am beginning to think we should avoid AS altogether if basic things like the water system are prone to such failure, due to fitting cheap components. My OH adores the jnternal look , feel & quality of AS. She says they have the wow factor which i tenc to agree with. I agreeAS really ought to engage with the forum and treat all of the comments as a valid part of their product development process.

Has anyone thought of contacting AS and/or specifying a better water pump, when ordering a new motorhome.

stewen wrote:I've been following this thread with interest and as a newby contemplating our first motorhome, I am beginning to think we should avoid AS altogether if basic things like the water system are prone to such failure, due to fitting cheap components. My OH adores the jnternal look , feel & quality of AS. She says they have the wow factor which i tenc to agree with. I agreeAS really ought to engage with the forum and treat all of the comments as a valid part of their product development process.

Hi Stew

This pre-supposes that other marques of motorhome are better - and I've no doubt that if you pick and choose, some are better in some aspects.

Overall however, I think A/S are by far the best - unless you want to spend an absolute fortune, and even then things go wrong with £100,000 vans!

I've said many times before (Yawn - sorry to those who have heard it all before  ) Autosleepers build excellent vans, but they spoil them by silly little cost-cutting exercises and lack of attention to detail. I'll leave it to others to convince you further, but we are on our fourth A/S now!!

I agree with him^. The attention to detail is bad but the overall build quality and features left other vans in my price bracket standing. We had considered 6 vans and reduced that to two after looking at the build quality of them all. 

Would we have been better off with our second choice? Who knows, but the holiday could not have been better.

Dave, do you have photos of your arrangement?

I take your point Dave, and I imagine most mainstream manufacturers however good they are overall will at some point try to save costs where they can to keep prices at a level people are prepared to pay,and some will no doubt get it wrong causing irritations such as those posted here. Its encouraging to hear there are also positives to AS ownership :)

stewen wrote:Its encouraging to hear there are also positives to AS ownership :)

Many more positives than negatives, or we wouldn't be on our fourth! 

dbroada wrote:Dave, do you have photos of your arrangement?

If you mean me Dave, I hope you are not being overly personal!! 

What arrangement do you mean?

Gromit wrote:

dbroada wrote:Dave, do you have photos of your arrangement?

If you mean me Dave, I hope you are not being overly personal!! 

What arrangement do you mean?

We were talking about water pumps but if you want to share something else,  who am I to argue.

Yes, I meant the underbelly pump. How much space does it take etc..

dbroada wrote:I agree with him^. The attention to detail is bad but the overall build quality and features left other vans in my price bracket standing. We had considered 6 vans and reduced that to two after looking at the build quality of them all. 

Would we have been better off with our second choice? Who knows, but the holiday could not have been better.

Agree again,,i am on my third,,,excellent layouts,,excellent quality,,,Had a 1995 and the interior was as good as new at 20 years old,,,BUSBY65,,

Hi Dave

The first post in this thread is useful.
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Dimensions are on here
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Other information sent separately in plain, sealed envelope!!   

Hi , I totally agree with Mr Gromit ,the design and in some respects the quality of fitments in A/S M/Hs is first class , but is let down by things like the stupid water pump!Ours packed up after 2 Yrs , and id like to say quality in other makes is different , our first M/H was a Hymer, it too had a submersible pump but the difference was it was 8Yrs old when we swapped it and it had never even "coughed" once! And if it had failed it was a 5 minute job to replace from above through a large bung ,I carried a spare but never needed it. Going back to replacing the offending O/E pump it can easily be replaced as I did using "Moggy Minors" excellent instructions, I think they appear under the topic by myself "reduced pressure". you really don't have to drop the tank, and the replacement Shureflow is miles better!! Just like to say love the Nuevo even so!      Regards Paul

Sorry the topic was in fact "reduced water pressure"  Regards   Paul

paul bullock wrote:. . . . you really don't have to drop the tank, and the replacement Shureflow is miles better!! Just like to say love the Nuevo even so!      Regards Paul

I know Paul, but I didn't want to make things even more complicated. Moggy's very instructive post was excellent, but I wouldn't fancy doing that either if we were in the middle of a French field. 

All A/S really needed to do was use a water tank with a big inspection hole in the top, as in the Hymer you mention, with a cover set into the floor of the van. Not exactly rocket science, and the combined additional cost of the trap door and the submersible pump would still be less than the cost of a Shurflo.

Unfortunately A/S (who are not alone in this) think only of building the item - with never a thought to "What if something goes wrong with  xxxxx and it has to be replaced?" 


And furthermore. Yes, the Shurflo is miles better . . . . . and so do we.