Help buying first Autosleeper!

Hello everybody, having had 3 or 4 trips in borrowed and hired vehicles, I'm finally in the market for one of my own! I'm looking long and hard at the 2 berth panel vans - Duetto, Symbol, Symphony etc, as they fit our needs perfectly. We have one small dog and want to do Festivals and long weekends in the UK. I have a budget under 20k and would love an automatic, but that will not be a deal breaker. Any tips and hints, or recommendations for a newcomer to buying please?

Hi, Jaffa!
From experience, the most important thing to get right is the layout....do you want a rear lounge, or rear kitchen? Single beds or a double? Having had previous trips, I guess that you have an idea of what layout could work best for you - we bought a Clubman GL which has an end kitchen, but have now changed to a rear lounge (non-AutoSleepers model) as we found that, having the bed made up in the centre of the 'van made access to the cab very difficult.....
Good luck with the search, and I'm sure that you'll get lots of help on the forums.

Andy

Hello and from Leicestershire, you will find lots of help on this friendly forum ask away.

AndyPK wrote:Hi, Jaffa!
From experience, the most important thing to get right is the layout....do you want a rear lounge, or rear kitchen? Single beds or a double? Having had previous trips, I guess that you have an idea of what layout could work best for you - we bought a Clubman GL which has an end kitchen, but have now changed to a rear lounge (non-AutoSleepers model) as we found that, having the bed made up in the centre of the 'van made access to the cab very difficult.....
Good luck with the search, and I'm sure that you'll get lots of help on the forums.

Andy

I think I prefer two singles, especially as we'll be taking our dog on many of the weekend trips, and a gap in between the bunks seems like a good idea. My problem is I don't know how many of these vans cam with a choice of two singles or a double. My first idea was to go for a trident, as I have a few buddies who have them, and was happy about the bed arrangements. I soon realised that despite my love for those, an on-board toilet would be advisable, which is why I'm now looking at these options. So, to sum up, it's not a deal breaker I.e. If I found a low mileage van I'd go for it regardless of the layout, as I want trouble free camping over anything else!
I am, of course, open to being persuaded otherwise by those who have been there...

Hi and welcome to the forum from Leicestershire  .

Ramblers wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum from Leicestershire  .

ah, I see you are a Symbol owner! Pray tell all!!!
I've only recently spotted them, and they look like they might be a really great option, especially as they look like they're pretty suited to all year round driving?
Am fascinated to hear your opinion!

We have a 2002 Symbol and love it. Its like a Tardis. We easily manage 12 weeks away at a time in France Spain and Portugal. Two singles or a double,,decent kitchen and toilet and shower. Loads of storage under the beds plus i have fitted a couple of large chequer plate boxes under the cycle rack. We had a Symphony a few years ago which is almost identical. Good luck with your search,,BUSBY65.

We cannot fault our Symbol, it comes fully equipped and as 'busby65' says all our stuff fits under the bed, into the cupboards and hangs in the wardrobe. We came to the Symbol after a couple of rising roof campers and I at 6'2" appreciate all the room and roof height that the Symbol offers. Highly recommended.

Hope this helps ... Jeff.

Ah, two very promising endorsements - thankyou both. Am I to assume that all Symbols have a ability to have two singles or a double? If this is so, that is a real deal maker! They also look like they'd not fare too badly as a second occasional car, which would also be useful. Thanks for the help folks, I dunno how people used to do this before the web!

Taurian wrote:I also endorse the Symbol as a very worthwhile consideration.  There is not much difference between the Duetto ( transit based) or the Symbol ( Boxer based) as far as layout goes.  Either model would probably fit the bill - my only rider being the Fords were prone to rust,  so if looking at the Duetto, be aware of this and give it a thorough inspection , especially the wheel arches and the bottom of the back doors.

Ah, that's pretty good to know. I have seen one Symbol for sale that claimed to have been galvanised - is this common?

Just to add another one in the mix - have you looked at the Nuevo's?

I was going down your route, but also having a dog etc wanted something to give a bit more room and was shocked how large a Nuevo is inside.

Admittedly it is bit wider and longer but not a huge amount but gives a lovely amount of space inside. You're still driving the same cab at the end of the day so the actual drivers perspective is no different unless you want to drive down tiny roads.

The ones around 2004 similar to ours are within your price range too - just thought I'd give you another option :)

Noggin wrote:Just to add another one in the mix - have you looked at the Nuevo's?

I was going down your route, but also having a dog etc wanted something to give a bit more room and was shocked how large a Nuevo is inside.

Admittedly it is bit wider and longer but not a huge amount but gives a lovely amount of space inside.  You're still driving the same cab at the end of the day so the actual drivers perspective is no different unless you want to drive down tiny roads.

The ones around 2004 similar to ours are within your price range too - just thought I'd give you another option :)

I hadn't, as the only ones I'd seen were well outside my budget! But, I've had another sniff around, and can see they are a possibilty. Thanks for the heads up!

Unsurprisingly, I would endorse what Noggin said.

I think the Nuevo has the best possible layout for the size of van, and it's still under 6 metres for cheap ferry crossings and only one space in a supermarket (or paid) car park.

We use the single beds, which take literally seconds to make. Just pull the seat out a few inches so the backrest drops down and sling on the king sized duvet. Big enough to lay on half of it and throw the other half over yourself, and they fir easily in the overcab locker if you go for an EK model. (End Kitchen - with side bench seats for daytime lounging.)

We use 4.5 Tog duvets which are OK most of the year, but if it's stinking cold we make up the double bed (possibly 10 seconds longer) and put both duvets on top of each other. (We carry a bottom sheet for when this arrangement is needed.)

I have never considered going to the loo as a spectator sport, so a proper toilet compartment is an essential for us. Have a look at the swing wash basin which makes a fully enclosed shower with no curtain, or splashes on the toilet seat. I'm not sure when A/S began to fit these, but somebody will know if you ask. (The older models with a shower curtain were perfectly OK, and I'm 6' 3".)

Apart from any other consideration you get better value for money with a  coachbuilt, and often much better insulation. I don't know about A/S but some converters use hardly any, and the windows are often single glazed so they run with condensation in the winter.

Lots to consider, and you have come to the right place. Apart from rusting Transits, the habitation layout is by far the most crucial issue. You might be amazed at the number of people who change vans after only a year (or less) because they made a hasty and poor choice of layout.

As you say, lots to consider. But its good to have a range of options, buying anything second hand is always going to have its compromises, and these things seem to be liberally spread all over the UK! My only reason for not including coachbuilts is that we do want to use little roads. We hired an Autocruise Starfire this year, and running around tiny Pembrokeshire village roads was a bit hair-raising at times. After 10 days of living in it, we certainly had a better idea of our needs. We also had a lot of experience in our younger days, holidaying on my father's 23' sailing boat, which was cosy, to say the least. Your last point is taken on board though - sound advice!

jaffa wrote:My only reason for not including coachbuilts is that we do want to use little roads. We hired an Autocruise Starfire this year, and running around tiny Pembrokeshire village roads was a bit hair-raising at times. !

It's definitely a consideration. We went to Cornwall earlier this year and wanted to do a bit of sightseeing round the small fishing villages etc.

We ended up hiring a cheap little car to buzz about in while there. In a previous VW T25 we would have been in the van all the time, but this has the hassle of putting everything away every morning when we set out and then setting up again in the evening.

Unfortunately there's always going to be a compromise with these, but it's good you're considering all this, as Gromit says, better to spend a little extra time now then replacing the van in a years time when it's not quite right.

In my opinion every van you look at will be a compromise in some way or other and it's a question of settling for what suits you best. You say you liked the Trident well what about a Topaz it's the same base vehicle, Vw transporters take some beating. It has a toilet and shower compartment, singles or a double bed, narrow enough for country roads and car parking spaces although it can overhang some shorter parking bays with it being a long wheelbase vehicle. The layout is the same as a Duetto but a little less roomy, but it doesn't have the rusting problems mentioned in an earlier post. A couple I know have got rid of their Duetto bought at the same time as my Topaz due to welding needing to be done at every MOT. You should be able to get an early Topaz for your budget, I would advise going for the 2.5 TDI as some of the other engine options are reported to be a little underpowered, I find I can tootle along enjoying the scenery or put my foot down and hammer it, a very tractable engine.

If you decide on one of the Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot base vehicles, I found that there was a blind spot caused by the windscreen wipers not clearing the top of the windscreen and made driving in the rain quite tiring. They may have improved since then and it also depends on your stature it may not bother a shorter person.

Hope this helps in your selection process.

Zapot wrote:In my opinion every van you look at will be a compromise in some way or other and it's a question of settling for what suits you best. You say you liked the Trident well what about a Topaz it's the same base vehicle, Vw transporters take some beating. It has a toilet and shower compartment, singles or a double bed, narrow enough for country roads and car parking spaces although it can overhang some shorter parking bays with it being a long wheelbase vehicle. The layout is the same as a Duetto but a little less roomy, but it doesn't have the rusting problems mentioned in an earlier post. A couple I know have got rid of their Duetto bought at the same time as my Topaz due to welding needing to be done at every MOT. You should be able to get an early Topaz for your budget, I would advise going for the 2.5 TDI as some of the other engine options are reported to be a little underpowered, I find I can tootle along enjoying the scenery or put my foot down and hammer it, a very tractable engine.

If you decide on one of the Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot base vehicles, I found that there was a blind spot caused by the windscreen wipers not clearing the top of the windscreen and made driving in the rain quite tiring. They may have improved since then and it also depends on your stature it may not bother a shorter person.

Hope this helps in your selection process.

Interesting, I'd started to feel that the VW marques carried a premium on price, and was ignoring them. I'm cautious about getting too old a vehicle, in the hope that I can buy reliability. I have a 12 year old VW golf, and it scares the bejeezus out of me everytime It goes to a garage e.g. £650 for a new fan (!!!) £80 for a failed sensor, you know, the ones that tell you you are gonna be shelling out £200 to get the warning light switched off, and so on. But you present an interesting point, so I'll have a nose around. Thanks for your input.

Only problem with VW,,parts very expensive,,,BUSBY65,,

busby65 wrote:Only problem with VW,,parts very expensive,,,BUSBY65,,

Depends where you go for them, I bought a wing mirror recently, complete £38 if you go to the truck parts as T4 are considered trucks for their parts also several firms on the web sell VW T4 parts genuine, not worth having cheap .

Re Topaz, I had a 2002 model my first van, very nice to look at and great to drive, a great wash room at the back, but, I found the seats not comfortable after a while and as for the beds, making up with several cushions and turning seats round to use to extend the beds, and the bed was not comfortable to say the least, that is my findings after having one, after fourteen months I changed to an Anniversary Clubman, another 2.5tdi VW , I have toured Norfolk and their narrow lanes, no bother, it is my "car " so does go into a car parking place,

There are lots of things to consider, good idea to look at as many different models as possible, and make up the beds, and try if they will suit, nothing is worse than a bad nights sleep. The Topaz is great as a day vehicle, my opinion, depends how you want to use your van.

Good luck with your search.

I only carry one cushion for bed making and that is the square one to extend o/s bed towards the back of drivers seat. Takes me max of three mins to make our two single beds up,,,,,BUSBY65

But the beds are so narrow, and the ns one is over the door.

Why would you need a door when you are in bed?  The beds are as wide as my ex Auto Sleeper coach built and its 5 seconds to slide the n/s bed back into a seat if you for some reason in the night you did need to open the side door..Of course with a van conversion you also have rear doors,,,BUSBY:smile!:

My Topaz beds were no where as wide as my Clubmans, ( plus Topaz cab seats have to be turned round,, if having to open cab doors to do so ,not good when raining ) so each to their own as always, my Husband refused to sleep in the Topaz.

We all have the van that suits us, wouldn`t do for us all to be the same, I was only trying to help the op.

 I would have preferred for someone to tell me the drawbacks as well as the good points of models I was interested in, then a choice can be made with all the information gathered.

Actually someone on this forum was a great help to me when I was in the market to buy one. so very grateful to that person. He had years of experience whereas I hadn`t. 

Good luck to the op whatever he chooses.

I am talking about my Symbol and my previous van was an Excelsior,,,beds just the same,,,BUSBY65,,,