Cannot get my water taps to work

by Lloydy Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:58 pm

I've recently purchased a Ford Transit Duetto and am beginning to learn all about it. Everything is in great order, but I cannot seem to get the taps working. T
Have currently got it hooked up to the electricity on my driveway, have topped up the water tank, the water pump appears to be working ok as I can hear it whirring. However I cannot get any water to come out of any of the taps. What am I missing? Any ideas?

by Gromit Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:08 pm

Hi Lloydy

I take it from your comments that you are new to motorhoming. Ignore the rest if I am wrong! smile!

Have you opened both hot and cold taps and left the pump running for a while - up to a couple of minutes perhaps. If all is well you should get a lot of coughing and spluttering, mostly from the hot tap. (I would suggest opening the hot tap first to fill the hot water tank, since this is what takes the time. When the hot tap stops spluttering, close it and open the cold tap, which should run smoothly almost at once.)

Otherwise you may have an air lock, about which I can't advise since I know nothing about your van.

Dave smile!

by Dutto Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:53 pm

Hi there,

Basically, either you haven't primed the pump or you have forgotten to put the drain back in the heater.

Once you have checked that they are all in place then:

o Close ALL of the taps.

o Start the pump.

o Open the cold tap on the sink.

o Either reach over (or put a small length of tubing on the end of the pipe entering the sink) clamp your mouth over the pipe and SUCK!

o Start the pump and keep sucking until you start to choke on the water flowing out of the tap.

o Leave this tap running and go and open the tap in the shower room.

o When water is flowing out of both taps close them off and as the pressure rises the pump should stop. (If it doesn't then the system isn't completely primed so you need to repeat the operation.)

o When the pump stops, open up the hot water tap on the sink. As the pressure falls the pump will kick in and keep running. WAIT! (It takes a few minutes to fill the water reservoir in the heater so as long as the pump is running it is pumping water somewhere.)

o When water comes out of the pipe at the sink go and open the hot water tap in the shower room.

o When water is running from both hot water taps close them off and "eventually" the pump should stop. (There is an accumulator on the hot water system that allows the water to expand when it is heated. It takes time for the pump to build up pressure as it has to fill the accumulator.)

When the pump stops you should now have a fully primed water system.

At this stage it is a good idea to re-fill the fresh water tank because the priming operation can use quite a few litres of water until you get used to doing it.

Also, before you set off, empty the wastewater tank as well.

Hope this helps. allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround

by Lloydy Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:43 pm

Thank you Gromit and Dutto For your help and thank you Paulmould for directing me here. Yes Gromit, I'm a newbie

by KMRTOPAZ Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:57 pm

I'm unsure about the type of water pump you have in the Duetto, but those I have experience of produce a pulsating noise when they are working, not a whirring noise ! It suggests a dry pump running without a water load
I don't subscribe to the airlock theory upstream of the pump, as pump pressure would shift it. But it is certainly possible downstream between the pump and the freshwater tank. A dry pump would possibly not drop the pressure sufficiently for the water to rise into the pump.
Assuming that this is the case, you could try priming the pump by running some water through the cold tap "backwards" through the system. It would probably need a only a cupful or two.
Keith

by Guest Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:29 am

Have you checked the head of water tap? if there is something wrong with the head of it?

by Dutto Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:06 am

KMRTOPAZ wrote:I'm unsure about the type of water pump you have in the Duetto, but those I have experience of produce a pulsating noise when they are working, not a whirring noise ! It suggests a dry pump running without a water load
I don't subscribe to the airlock theory upstream of the pump, as pump pressure would shift it. But it is certainly possible downstream between the pump and the freshwater tank. A dry pump would possibly not drop the pressure sufficiently for the water to rise into the pump.
Assuming that this is the case, you could try priming the pump by running some water through the cold tap "backwards" through the system. It would probably need a only a cupful or two.
Keith

Hi there,

Almost all motorhome, caravan and boat pumps fitted in he last fifteen years are "diaphragm" pumps rather than the old fashioned "impeller" pumps. If you try and push water backwards through a diaphragm pump you stand a good chance of rupturing the diaphragm.

The air-lock is never upstream of the pump!

Their greatest feature of a diaphragm pump is that they can run "dry" for a relatively long time and don't seize up like the old impeller pumps did.

Whichever type of pump is fitted the "no water" on a Duetto is because ...

... 90% of the time the pump isn't properly primed by the operator ...

... 5% of the time air is getting into the suction (via a cracked filter a loose connection) ...

... 4% of the time an idiot ( innocent

) leaves the drain plug out of the heater or forgets to close the drain valve on the tank ...

... 1% of the time there is a mechanical failure of the motor (very, very rare) or the pump (very rare) or the diaphragm.

Hope this helps. allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround

by dbroada Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:18 am

Dutto wrote:
Almost all motorhome, caravan and boat pumps fitted in he last fifteen years are "diaphragm" pumps rather than the old fashioned "impeller" pumps. If you try and push water backwards through a diaphragm pump you stand a good chance of rupturing the diaphragm.

not getting involved in the technical side here but I will point out that the OP's van is 20 years old.

by Paulmold Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:04 am

dbroada wrote:
Dutto wrote:
Almost all motorhome, caravan and boat pumps fitted in he last fifteen years are "diaphragm" pumps rather than the old fashioned "impeller" pumps. [size=43]If you try and push water backwards through a diaphragm pump you stand a good chance of rupturing the diaphragm.[/size]
not getting involved in the technical side here but I will point out that the OP's van is 20 years old.

And Dotto has the same model!

by dbroada Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:08 am

Paulmold wrote:
And Dotto has the same model!

I saw the photo but he doesn't say the year. snigger

I can spot the difference between a mk 6 & 7 Transit from quite a distance but anything before that is a blur.

by fenderbender Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:46 pm

I sometimes have trouble priming the shurflo in my van, sucking on the taps works but can result in almost drowning followed by ten minutes violent coughing and a purple face, fortunately my pump is easily accessable, i now have a length of hose (long enough to reach sink) with a shureflo adapter on one end, unscrew the outlet hose from the pump and replace with the short hose with adapter, start pump, hold end over sink and suck.
Hardly any effort needed and if you use clear tubing you can see the water coming.

Dave

by peugeotboxer Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:49 pm

Paulmold wrote:And Dotto has the same model!

'Dotto'...........maybe the name will stick? hugegrins

PB

by Paulmold Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:58 pm

Whoops! Must bee mye spel checka.

by Gromit Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:27 pm

Dutto wrote:Almost all motorhome, caravan and boat pumps fitted in he last fifteen years are "diaphragm" pumps rather than the old fashioned "impeller" pumps.

How I wish that were true!! shrugg

The very recent vans have a submersible impeller pump, which is not progress in my opinion. Well it is, but in reverse!!!

I might even take advice from a couple of members on here who have dumped the submersible and fitted a diaphragm pump instead. At least they can get at it if it goes wrong on the first day of a three week holiday in France, which it would since Mr Sod is always on duty. snigger

Dave

by paul bullock Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:14 pm

Yes Gromit youre totally correct. I had one of the new "state of the art" submersible pumps which self destruct after only 2 Yrs intermittent use!! Impeller type I might add, so nothing would surprise me with A/S supplied pumps! [ I now have fitted an accessible shurflow pump] Lets hope you forgot the drain valve.[we all have at some time ] or its a massive airlock, nice simple things! Best of luck Regards Paul

by Dutto Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:22 pm

Thank God the Duetto's made back in the late 90's were never fitted with one of the modern "submersible" pumps.

There are two types of impeller pump. One is a positive displacement type. One advantage of this type of pump is that it can "lift" water and "pump" air so it is often used in services where the liquid is below the level of the pump. Here is a tutorial by Jabsco.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

This type of impeller can rapidly overheat if it is run "dry" and can be destroyed within seconds if it is run against a closed valve; which is the main reason why the Jabsco type impeller pump has been superseded by the diaphragm type.

Another type of impeller pump is the centrifugal pump. Here is a tutorial on centrifugal pumps.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

They can only "lift" a liquid if they are already primed because the use centrifugal force to move the liquid. As a result, they are very seldom used in a service where the level of the liquid is below the level of the pump. They can be operated against a closed valve for a short time without damage but as they use the application of centrifugal force on the water to operate they are very prone to air-locks and often stop pumping for this reason.

Submersible pumps are centrifugal pumps.

Most of the out of tank fresh water pumps fitted in motorhomes and caravans are now diaphragm pumps. They are positive displacement pumps that can "lift" a liquid once they have been properly primed. If they have not been primed they can be run for a relatively long time without damage because there are very few friction points lubricated by the water passing through them.

Here's a video for the operation and maintenance of the Shurflo Diaphragm Pump.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I have owned and lived in a variety of caravans, boats and motorhomes over the last fifty years, I have dismantled, maintained and reassembled almost every different type of pump and when I was working I even wrote the operating manuals for a wide variety of pumps and compressors.

In the last five years I must have explained how to prime the Duetto water system about ten times and the advice I gave on this particular Thread are still valid for a pre-1999 Duetto which is the one in the original Post.

Best regards,
drinksallround

by KMRTOPAZ Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:20 am

Dutto, If 90% of the problems are caused because the pump is not correctly primed by the operator............you would do us all a considerable service by telling us how to do it !

I have to add that my ignorance stems from never having had to do it in nearly fifty years of motorhoming.
Keith

by Dutto Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:51 am

Dutto wrote:
.......

In the last five years I must have explained how to prime the Duetto water system about ten times and the advice I gave on this particular Thread are still valid for a pre-1999 Duetto which is the one in the original Post.

Best regards,

As I have told dozens of Operators over the years "If all else fails read the Manual." or, in this case, read my original Post.

tap_fingers

by MelB Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:18 am

Hope you have fixed it Lloydy and thank you Dutto, informative as ever [as well as other forum members]. Feel more confident now when I fill the water tank up for the first time in spring, after draining it completely for the winter months.
PS My Kemerton MH has the Whale submersible pump fitted.
Mel

by Lloydy Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:35 am

Still had no joy yet tap_fingers

but thank you for all the responses!

by Spospe Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:45 pm

It's not the non-return valve in the feed to the hot tank, stuck shut is it? I have had this in the past and when it happens, there is no flow from the hot taps because the hot tanks cannot be filled. In my case the problem was caused by a small quantity of water that did not drain down and when it froze, the expanding ice forced the non-return valve into a jammed shut state.

The pump ran OK, but no water.

by Steeplejacques2 Wed May 25, 2016 9:33 pm

Dutto wrote:Hello Dutto

After lots of frustration, I think I have cracked it! Thank you for the advice/guidance.
I have a supplementary though if you have the patience...my pump never stops running...is that a leak then do you think, which is why I can only prime it with your method?

Thanks

Phil

Hi there,

Basically, either you haven't primed the pump or you have forgotten to put the drain back in the heater.

Once you have checked that they are all in place then:

o Close ALL of the taps.

o Start the pump.

o Open the cold tap on the sink.

o Either reach over (or put a small length of tubing on the end of the pipe entering the sink) clamp your mouth over the pipe and SUCK!

o Start the pump and keep sucking until you start to choke on the water flowing out of the tap.

o Leave this tap running and go and open the tap in the shower room.

o When water is flowing out of both taps close them off and as the pressure rises the pump should stop. (If it doesn't then the system isn't completely primed so you need to repeat the operation.)

o When the pump stops, open up the hot water tap on the sink. As the pressure falls the pump will kick in and keep running. WAIT! (It takes a few minutes to fill the water reservoir in the heater so as long as the pump is running it is pumping water somewhere.)

o When water comes out of the pipe at the sink go and open the hot water tap in the shower room.

o When water is running from both hot water taps close them off and "eventually" the pump should stop. (There is an accumulator on the hot water system that allows the water to expand when it is heated. It takes time for the pump to build up pressure as it has to fill the accumulator.)

When the pump stops you should now have a fully primed water system.

At this stage it is a good idea to re-fill the fresh water tank because the priming operation can use quite a few litres of water until you get used to doing it.

Also, before you set off, empty the wastewater tank as well.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

by Steeplejacques2 Wed May 25, 2016 9:36 pm

Hello Dutto

After lots of frustration, I think I have cracked it! Thank you for the advice/guidance.
Well almost, if you have the patience...my pump never stops running...is that a leak then do you think, which is why I can only prime it with your method?

Thanks

Phil

by -mojo- Wed May 25, 2016 10:25 pm

Steeplejacques2 wrote:Hello Dutto

Dutto hasn't accessed the forum since April. He is probably at his villa (possibly a slightly grand term for the property) in the south of France.

The only reasons for the pump running with the taps shut and no water squirting out somewhere that I've experienced are:

1. There is air entering the pump on the inlet side, so it is trying to pump air instead of water, or
2. There is a split in the pump diaphragm or
3. The adjuster on the pump has been adjusted too far so that it is trying to supply too high a water pressure.

by Steeplejacques2 Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:58 pm

Hi Mojo
Thanks for the further advice, have to go find my torch and toolbox again then!

Phil

Cannot get my water taps to work

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Re: Cannot get my water taps to work

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Re: Cannot get my water taps to work

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Re: Cannot get my water taps to work

Re: Cannot get my water taps to work

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Re: Cannot get my water taps to work

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Thanks!

Running Water at last!

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