Keeping vehicle battery charged

by Twinkletoes77 Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:06 am

I had a new battery for my Topaz last December. For most of the year I do very short trips 2 or 3 times a week, with longer camping trips around fortnightly from March to end October. I did not use the van from Halloween to the end of November and charged the battery after 2 weeks. When charging again at the end of November the battery dropped from 70% to 20% overnight. The battery was declared clapped out and was replaced free BUT I was told not to use my trickle charger or a solar charger as this would destroy the battery. The only way would be to go for a drive in daylight for about half an hour every week. In the days before maintenance free batteries I used this same trickle charger from time to time whenever necessary with no harm to the batteries.

Can anyone confirm that I must actually drive around to charge the battery? Surely if a trickle charger kills a battery it makes nonsense of all the solar chargers around for leisure batteries, phones etc. Puzzled Oldie
scratch head

by KMRTOPAZ Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:23 am

I would always be wary of using a trickle charger. There is a potential for overcharging using anything other than an intelligent charging unit . My vehicle (Topaz) is in use all year round and I find that the habitation battery is not kept in good condition with local trips, resulting in difficulty starting the Eber diesel heater. This is the signal to put it on charge overnight, either by disconnecting the battery and using a Halfords charger direct, or connecting an EHU and ensuring that the panel switch directs charge to the habitation battery.

by Dutto Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:51 am

Hi there,

Everything you ever needed to know about batteries is on here ...

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Our Leisure Battery (an ordinary lead/acid battery) is over four years old and is often left switched off for weeks on end without the engine being run to charge it. It is still in excellent condition as lead/acid batteries are noted for keeping their charge.

Our MH is an old Duetto which has very little drain on the engine battery when parked up for the winter.

We renewed the five=year old engine battery in January this year because I had put her into undercover storage for three months with a solar battery charger connected but without disconnecting the battery. As a result, the battery not only went flat it self-destructed and wouldn't hold a charge at all.(Doh!!)

However, parked on the drive, for the previous four winters one of these little gadgets to kept the battery topped up ...

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... and it is still in use and doing a sterling job on the new battery. allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround

by -mojo- Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:00 am

Twinkletoes77 wrote:I had a new battery for my Topaz last December. For most of the year I do very short trips 2 or 3 times a week, with longer camping trips around fortnightly from March to end October. I did not use the van from Halloween to the end of November and charged the battery after 2 weeks. When charging again at the end of November the battery dropped from 70% to 20% overnight. The battery was declared clapped out and was replaced free BUT I was told not to use my trickle charger or a solar charger as this would destroy the battery. The only way would be to go for a drive in daylight for about half an hour every week. In the days before maintenance free batteries I used this same trickle charger from time to time whenever necessary with no harm to the batteries.

Can anyone confirm that I must actually drive around to charge the battery? Surely if a trickle charger kills a battery it makes nonsense of all the solar chargers around for leisure batteries, phones etc. Puzzled Oldie

It doesn't really sound like whoever was giving the advice actually had much of a clue what they were talking about. A good well-designed maintenance charger should not harm your battery, and it's more likely that your now-deceased battery had an inherent fault (e.g. part of one of the internal plates detaching and causing an internal short in one of the cells), rather than being damaged by your charger.

My leisure battery spends all of its life on a trickle (maintenance) charger - because it's always on mains hookup when in the garage - and it's now almost 3 years old with no sign of any harm at all to the battery.

What make/model of trickle charger are you using?

by Twinkletoes77 Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:07 am

Thanks for the comments. I use a 36 year old Halfords charger that has an analyser and automatic cut off when the battery is charged. I think my best option is to alternate between going on a half hour or more run and a week later check the charge level and use the charger if the level has dropped to say 70%.

Or I could get a solar charger that could be used on the vehicle or leisure battery as when going to folk club meets I am usually parked up for a week and I have known the leisure battery to get rather low.

by -mojo- Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:07 pm

Twinkletoes77 wrote:I use a 36 year old Halfords charger that has an analyser and automatic cut off when the battery is charged.

Personally, I would recommend changing it. Electronics has changed a lot in 36 years - the components that were used at that time would be pretty susceptible to ageing, and they didn't have the sophisticated voltage reference circuits that they do now, so you may find that the cutoff point has drifted away from its original calibration (which may not have been very good to start with).

You don't have to spend a massive amount now - both Lidl and Aldi occasionally sell intelligent charges which are under £15, and there are several other very highly regarded makes such as Ctek and Optimate that are small, lightweight and efficient.

Although you shouldn't expect to get the leisure battery fully charged on a half hour run (typically the wiring isn't a large enough gauge for that to happen), it's still a really good idea to take it out for a run every week or two in the winter anyway, as it stops things like the brakes from seizing up. Pretty much the only times I've had problems with brakes has been after a winter lay-up, so I don't do it now...

by Twinkletoes77 Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:14 pm

Thanks Mojo, I think I will buy a new charger and I will make sure it has all the safety features. Incidentally it was a battery supplier that said I should not use a charger!!

by Dutto Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:47 pm

Twinkletoes77 wrote:Thanks Mojo, I think I will buy a new charger and I will make sure it has all the safety features. Incidentally it was a battery supplier that said I should not use a charger!!

Er ....

... and what exactly does the "battery supplier" sell?? scratch head

Is that me being cynical again? scratch head

Best regards,
drinksallround

by Peter Brown Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:41 pm

It is essential to store a lead acid battery in a charged state or the plates will sulfate. A modern vehicle has circuitry that constantly discharges the battery and the vehicle manufacturer will recommend that the battery is disconnected if the vehicle is planned not to be used for 4 weeks or more. It takes longer to charge than to discharge a battery and, including the technical constraints that Mojo mentions, a short drive will not charge the battery.

Constant trickle charging will cause the electrolyte to gas and over weeks the battery will dry out, the plates overheating and buckling so an intermittent charge of say 8 hrs every couple of weeks is best. Manufactures and users will say that modern intelligent chargers can be left connected all the time without any electrolyte loss. Technically they are correct but I personally don't believe anything is perfect so would only charge for a few hours at a time.

If the van is stored outside, an adequately sized solar panel fitted to charge both vehicle and leisure batteries is perfect. When in store it charges during the day and allows the battery to discharge overnight keeping the batteries in tip top condition. It also allows much longer use off hook up when camping.

by gemdeco Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:53 pm

Hi All
I think "just" that this topic should be on the technical page and after buying quite an expensive solar panel to keep my MH battery topped up as I have no access to EHU I hope I have not wasted my money
Alan

by Peter Brown Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:03 pm

gemdeco wrote:Hi All
I think "just" that this topic should be on the technical page

I expect the OP was looking for advice from someone with a similar van - hence posting in van conversions. The topic has been well covered in other threads so can stay here.

gemdeco wrote:after buying quite an expensive solar panel to keep my MH battery topped up as I have no access to EHU I hope I have not wasted my money
Alan

Certainly not wasted - in my view the best value for money accessory you can put on a motorhome both for battery maintenance and longevity of camping without hookup

by Twinkletoes77 Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:26 pm

Dutto wrote:
Twinkletoes77 wrote:Thanks Mojo, I think I will buy a new charger and I will make sure it has all the safety features. Incidentally it was a battery supplier that said I should not use a charger!!
Er ....

... and what exactly does the "battery supplier" sell??

Is that me being cynical again?

Best regards,

The very reason I thought I would get other opinions. It was a well known chain of tyre and battery suppliers.

by Bulletguy Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:42 am

A guy who posts in Out & About forum particularly on electrics or battery threads is worth checking out. Knows his stuff. His username on O&A is aandncaravan and he's posted in a thread here about Banner batteries; [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This is his website; [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Twinkletoes77 Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:24 pm

I now have an answer as to why my charger could destroy a new battery. It is from the 'lead oxide' days but now a lot of batteries are 'silver oxide', so I guess I'll be doing regular 20 mile circular tours or finding a supermarket about 20 miles away!!. Even the folk clubs I regularly attend fall short of that one way distance. Ah well the 'joys of motoring'

Keeping vehicle battery charged

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