240/12v converter failure

the 240/12v converter on my 2008 Symbol has failed 3 times in the last 3 years. It seems to be associated with using the converter to charge the van battery although I'm not certain of this. Any advice gratefully recieved?

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Simon if you post at the link above a brief introduction to yourself and your motorhoming experience it helps us to frame answers to any queries you have.

I would guess a 2008 Symbol would have a Sargent power system installed, perhaps you could confirm that? Unless your van has been modified, the device you describe as a converter is actually a battery charger. Can you describe the symptoms that accompanied the failures?

Not sure if it is a sargent power system (will try to find out). However the symptom on the most recent occasion was that a few weeks ago the van battery was flat so I connected the 240v supply to the van and switched the control panel to charge the van battery. This worked OK. Then went away this last weekend and connected the van to site 240v. The RCD for the combined charger cooker and fridge tripped (or was already tripped). and would not reset until the charger was turned off. When I tried to switch the charge back on there was a flash and the RCD tripped again

Trying to charge a battery from flat is the most taxing thing that you can do to such a power supply. It ~should~ be designed to cope with the load, but the initial current surge will typically be large. In fact many very well designed chargers (e.g. the smaller CTEKs) simply will not do it - they will just show a battery fault.

So I would recommend that you avoid ever trying to charge a flat battery (either vehicle or leisure) with the built-in charger/power supply. I do most of my charging with a CTEK, but I keep an old transformer-based charger for situations where the battery is in too bad a state to use one.

If your power supply/charger is by Sargent it would be worth calling them, as they are very helpful and I ~think~ they offer a repair service for older units which may be cheaper than replacement.

And then you really need to find out why the vehicle battery went flat...

Hi  

simon john wrote: However the symptom on the most recent occasion was that a few weeks ago the van battery was flat so I connected the 240v supply to the van and switched the control panel to charge the van battery. This worked OK. Then went away this last weekend and connected the van to site 240v. The RCD for the combined charger cooker and fridge tripped (or was already tripped). and would not reset until the charger was turned off. When I tried to switch the charge back on there was a flash and the RCD tripped again

What happened on the first two occasions, it may be relevant, and where did the flash come from?

In order to trip the RCD (assuming it’s not faulty itself) the problem must be earth leakage on the mains input side of the unit. I thought most Sargent units had the charger built in, can you actually switch the mains to the charger off separately?

It’s well worth checking the wiring just to make sure that there are no wires coming adrift, there is no dampness anywhere and no spiders webs! (it’s been known).

-mojo- wrote:So I would recommend that you avoid ever trying to charge a flat battery (either vehicle or leisure) with the built-in charger/power supply. I do most of my charging with a CTEK, but I keep an old transformer-based charger for situations where the battery is in too bad a state to use one.

Or just get a ZIG.    

Sorry for the delay in responding to your question. the first failure occurred not long after getting the vehicle and I'm not sure how or why it failed. The unit was replaced by a Amperor 3 stage leisure battery charger (18amp multi-stage charger). This failed in a very similar way to that I described above which was also the same type of charger

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See page 7-13 onwards of the handbook found at the link above. A Sargent Power supply control system should be fitted that has an integral battery charger.

The Amperor charger is not standard fit. It is impossible to advise further without examining the current installation but it sounds as though you have two chargers trying to charge each other! I strongly recommend you take it to an Autosleeper dealer to investigate.

thanks for the latest info however the description of controls in the manual you sent the link to does not match what I have in my vehicle. The habitation control panel is a small LED screen above the rear doors which has 3 buttons below it. The centre one turns the display on and off and the other 2 scroll through various options (e.g. water pump on/off; charge habitation/vehicle). The charger/convertor is situated under the floor of the van under to cooker near to the 240v inlet socket. The RCD unit is above this in the void below the cooker

SJ - It is very likely that you have a CTSAN/12A/18A 3 Stage Leisure Battery Charger installed, as in my Symbol.

The unit is manufactured by Bonus Plug-in Systems.

Your electrics management system was manufactured by MES.

I can provide you with a copy of the Installation & User Instructions for the battery charger if you wish.  However, this is very unlikely to help you solve the problem described in your original posting.

G

I wasn't aware that the MES system was in some Symbols. I have some info on the system in coachbuilts but not van conversions.

Hi  

Gram wrote:SJ - It is very likely that you have a CTSAN/12A/18A 3 Stage Leisure Battery Charger installed, as in my Symbol.

Or had because the original was replaced. The only technical info I could find that may relate to the CTSAN/12A/18A is here:

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It says in the blurb that:

“Some boards are fitted inside combination units and some inside a completely replaceable standalone charger" I assume it was one of these that was replaced by the Amperor in which case there should be no problem.

brodco wrote:It’s well worth checking the wiring just to make sure that there are no wires coming adrift, there is no dampness anywhere and no spiders webs! (it’s been known).

That’s still worth checking that before you go any further. If the RCD trips but not any of the breakers (and only when the unit is switched on) it points to an earth leakage fault inside the unit and there is nothing you, as the user, can do to cause that.

It looks as if you have had two failures in two years (bad luck?) so it’s probably best to get on to the manufacturer and see what they have to say. Shouldn’t the last unit still be under warranty?

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I has to be said that an earth leakage fault is potentially dangerous so if you are unsure it’s best to get an electrician to look at it. Particularly, if you are looking at the wiring, make sure it’s never run with the earth disconnected.

Brod

Or had because the original was replaced. 

Sorry, Brod, I missed that!

G