Sargent EC51 Control Panel on Boxer Kemerton

Noticed recently that both LB & VB neon lights on the Sargent EC51 control panel ‘flashing’ when vehicle engine is running & Panel switched on or off. They do not flash when on EHU. Both LB & VB power also appear to be discharging equally when not on EHU [though I assumed LB would be the first to discharge to a safe level, prior to switching to VB]. Informed Marquis where the van was purchased. Technician ran test on LB-charging as normal. Marquis as concluded that the ‘flashing’ is normal when the batteries are charging via the alternator. But my guess I that this is far from normal - given I have never witnessed the battery neon lights flash before. I am considering contacting Sargent technical support to check if I do have a problem but first would be pleased to hear from the forum for your views & ideas.
Mel

It's not unusual for neons to flicker a bit, but the EC51 appears to be entirely based on LEDs, not neons.

If the two blue LEDs are flickering slightly then what I suspect you are seeing is a small variation in voltage while the van's alternator is operating, and it's probably more a result of less-than-ideal voltage regulation in the Peugeot base vehicle than any fault in the Sargent control panel. If that is what is happening then it would not concern me a great deal.

One option would be to do a reset of the control panel (as described in the User Manual) if Marquis have not already done so, though to be honest I doubt that this will change anything!

If both of the batteries are discharging together (i.e. the voltages have been measured and they stay near enough exactly the same over time while habitation eqpt is used off-EHU) that does suggest a fault - the most obvious one being that the split charge relay is failing to disconnect the two batteries from one another when the alternator is not running. But bear in mind that the vehicle battery will slowly be discharged anyway by things like alarms, radios, trackers, etc - so to be sure you really do need to see that the voltages match one another exactly, not approximately.

The control panel flashes the middle battery level led on our panel too when the engine is running. Have always assumed that it was correct.

Sorry, I've just re-read the manual for the EC51. This "flashing LED" behaviour is entirely by design, and is intended to show that the control unit is in "System Disable" mode while the engine is running. I can't cut and paste the text because Sargent write their manuals in a weird way, but if you look at section 4.3 of the User Manual for the EC155 Power Control System (the controller that goes with the EC51 panel) then all will be explained.

As Marquis advised you, this behaviour is entirely normal.

Thank you Mojo for the excellent explanation and advice with regards to the LED flashing lights. Feel a bit silly now for being worried about them. But so was the technician incidentally-who did reset the control panel-with no effect-& suggested there might be a fault elsewhere. Incidentally I had already followed that path and told him so, by removing/replacing the battery fuses as described in the User Manual. The technician did say however he would contact Sargent Ltd, so I guess they gave the control panel the ok.  I will of course look at sec 4.3 of the Manual [ EC 155 Power Control System] as well as follow your advice and check more carefully the discharge rate of both batteries when using the habitation equipment, with EHU off. Thank you again.
Mel

Sargent EC155 Power Control System/EC51 Control Panel
I now have Issue 2 'revised' instructions for the Power Control System. It refers to control panels which have a blue power LED and a green circuit board. For me [with the help of Mojo & Craig] it solves the issue of the 'flashing' LEDS. See below:

Good Morning,
 
There is nothing to worry about, this is normal operation and is referred to in our manual on page 7, Section 4.3 
 
I hope this helps,
 
Regards,
Craig Foot
Technical Support Specialist
Sargent Electrical Services Ltd

PS was unable to paste the link Craig sent but the revised instructions should be available on the Sargent Electrical Services site.

May I add the following postscript, please, which may be of interest to owners who have the Sargent 328 system and a solar panel?

With the vehicle connected to mains, but with the control panel off, the Sargent 328S, v2.22 will direct the mains charging current to the leisure battery (the default). At the same time the solar panel will share its current between both batteries (not that the leisure battery will need it as it's being charged from the mains). In winter that half-trickle from the solar may not be enough to mainatin the vehicle battery.

If, however, the Control panel is switched on, and the blue LED of the battery symbol is illuminated, then the vehicle battery will be charged from the mains, and the solar panel will again share its current between both batteries. That ensures that the more important battery is fully charged, whilst at the same time the leisure battery (which probably won't have much drain when the vehicle is laid up) will at least receive some charge.

I've checked the above with Sargent, who really are the most helpful of companies.

I have fitted solar panels (205watts) and a dual charge controller linked to both LB and VB, this controller will switch off the feed from the solar system when the batteries are fully charged and then both control panel led's will flash. (sargent EC51 control panel with blue led's)

When I first took purchase of the Duo, it had a sargent EC50 control panel fitted with green led's, and shortly after purchase and with use, both the LB and VB became run down!
Sargent Technical said that the EC50 controll panel with green Led's will not support a solar panel charging system. The EC 50 control panel was changed to an EC51 panel and hey presto we have power. (paid for by the dealer ) the led's for the LB and VB flash when fully charged.
Hope this helps someone.

Pioneer wrote:I have fitted solar panels (205watts) and a dual charge controller linked to both LB and VB, this controller will switch off the feed from the solar system when the batteries are fully charged and then both control panel led's will flash. (sargent EC51 control panel with blue led's)

When I first took purchase of the Duo, it had a sargent EC50 control panel fitted with green led's, and shortly after purchase and with use, both the LB and VB became run down!
Sargent Technical said that the EC50 controll panel with green Led's will not support a solar panel charging system. The EC 50 control panel was changed to an EC51 panel and hey presto we have power. (paid for by the dealer ) the led's for the LB and VB flash when fully charged.
Hope this helps someone.

I'm a bit surprised at this because IIRC the control panel is not the unit that determines whether a solar charger is supported or not - it's the Power Supply Unit (typically an EC155, EC325 or EC328 in the smaller A-S models). The control panel (e.g. EC50, EC51) is in effect just a way to switch the functions in the Power Supply Unit on and off remotely.

Do you know what PSU is currently fitted, and whether that was changed at the same time that they changed the control panel?

Under normal circumstances, having both LB and VB LEDs flashing is intended to show that the power supply is in System Disable mode (for example as described in the EC155 manual section 4.3) - which doesn't sound right at all!

mojo, thanks for your reply. The EC51 and PSU  was fitted at the same time, it arrived from the Dealer and I fitted it, plug in, so was an easy, quick job.
I believe something is in the PSU to prevent overcharge of the batteries and this is why the led's flash, my solar controller also prevents overcharge.
No problems since fitting the unit.
I was told they are about £50 to purchase? but got mine under the 12month initial warranty.
If necessary I can look if any PSU number is printed on it.

Pioneer wrote:
I was told they are about £50 to purchase? but got mine under the 12month initial warranty.

The control panel and PSU are a lot more than £50 - depending on exactly which PSU you got. More like £200 with the EC155, but without wiring kit?

I guess if the solar controller is taking the battery voltages too high and tripping an over-voltage condition in the PSU it's not likely to harm the PSU, but quite what it will do to your batteries long-term I don't know. I was going to suggest that you checked the setup of the solar controller to ensure that it's configured for the correct battery type - most these days seem to have settings for two or three different battery types, so that they can be set up for "wet cell" (conventional lead-acid) or AGM batteries - which I ~think~ require a lower float charge voltage.

By coincidence quite a few people here and on other MH forums reported problems with solar panels and the EC328 controller cutting out due to over-voltage - and many of us ended up with a new version of the software in the control panel as a result - but it doesn't sound like that is related to your problem anyway.

Hi mojo,

My Solar controller is set up correctly and using sealed batteries, with 90% of the charge going directly to the 2 x LB and the rest to the VB. I do use the Duo all year round without any EHU.
The point that I was making is the fact that the older version, the sargent EC50 and PCU can't handle the solar charge, so I was told??
If what you say about the price is right, then didn't I do well
All this information I got via the Dealership from Sargent. I am a Mechanical Engineer, so motherboards etc is a little over my head I'm afraid, know why they are in position, but don't understand the Gubbins as they say.

Hope all this in some way will help Mel Battersby above.

Pioneer wrote:
The point that I was making is the fact that the older version, the sargent EC50 and PCU can't handle the solar charge, so I was told??

Although you were told that, I'm not sure what it means! My understanding of the EC50 and EC51 is that they are almost identical, but one has a lighting control circuit and the other has a waste level meter? The odd thing about what you were told is that both the EC50 and EC51 are designed to operate exactly the same PSU - the EC155. I suspect that there may have been some Chinese whispers going on in the background - it seems more likely that you needed a control panel with more recent firmware than was present in your EC50, and they happened to have an EC51 available.

From the £50 cost information it sounds like you only got a replacement control panel and not the PSU (the big box with all the fuses on the front) - my £200 was based on an initial assumption that you had changed both.

Unlike the EC325 and EC328, the EC155 does not have a built-in solar controller (which ~might~ also be what they mean by "can't handle the solar charge") - but that would not have helped you anyway, as the power limit on both EC325 and EC328 solar controllers is 120W, which is obviously not adequate for your panel(s).

Unlike the EC325 and EC328, the EC155 does not have a built-in solar controller (which ~might~ also be what they mean by "can't handle the solar charge") - but that would not have helped you anyway, as the power limit on both EC325 and EC328 solar controllers is 120W, which is obviously not adequate for your panel(s).


I suspect that you are right in what you say about the power limit, maybe that is why the dealer was being a bit vague and being slightly tight lipped about it all. ( I was away in the cold weather last Feb when my problem occured, I was not happy chappie having just picked the Camper up from the dealer)
Thanks for your input, it's helped me and probably others to understand what go's on with these bits of essential kit.

Bill.

Hi all new member here so please be gentle!
Rather than start a new similar thread I thought I'd just add to this one and see what response I get.
We've just returned from a weekend away in our 2010 Trident (T5 base) and have a problem with the EC51 control panel.
Basically the panel will not stay powered up - the van was on hookup for 2 days before we left home and also for the duration of the weekend once on site so in theory the battery should be charged up.
But when we turned on the control panel it would only stay on for approx 30 seconds before shutting down again and any repeated attempts to turn it on failed. It seemed that if left for a period of time then when turned on it would stay on for longer than repeated attempts.
Having read the manual I attempted the reboot procedure of switching off the charger, pulling out fuses 9 & !0, waiting a couple of minutes and then replacing and switching the charger back on, but it made no difference.
I emailed Autosleeper and had a swift response suggesting that I test the leisure battery to see if it's holding a charge but am unsure how I go about this? Do I need a voltmeter and how do I use it? What readings would I be looking for and what would they tell me?
If anyone can offer any advice I'd appreciate it thanks.

As A/S say (and as it explains on page 4 of the user manual) the system will automatically shut down if the battery is below a critical voltage. The battery level can be displayed on the EC51 on the bar graph on the right, and the manual explains what each of the bar levels mean. If you combine those two, you will find that if the lowest (red) LED is lit then the battery is below 10.5 volts (i.e. it is nearly dead flat) and you can expect the panel to switch off shortly.

If the panel is staying on for 30 seconds, that should be long enough to take a reading of voltage from it. Alternatively, use a voltmeter across the leisure battery with no other load connected - if the voltage is at 12.6V then it is close to fully charged. If it is below 12V then it is close to being fully discharged.

If you don't have a copy of the EC155/EC50/EC51 manual you can get it here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

OK will test the battery as you say. Cheers for the response.

Bit confused here. I have a 2014 Kingham fitted with EC500 PSU and EC480 Control Panel. Why has Mel got a EC51 Control Panel fitted to his 2015 Kemerton?
I  seem to have another problem the EC480 cuts out when the voltage is too high? I have a 80w Solar Panel fitted. When on EHU and bright sunshine (solar panel charging 4/5amps) the panel cuts out after between 5 & 20 minutes. Turn off battery charger and the panel stays on.

A/S fit different control panels and PSUs in different vans. It's not quite as random as their workers flipping a coin to decide what to fit, but they change what they fit to each model pretty regularly.

There is a known problem with other models (specifically the EC328) which resulted in Sargent issuing updated firmware for the units affected - mine was one of those. So if your van is no longer under A/S warranty it may be worth speaking to Sargent to see if the EC480/500 has a similar update.

Not sure if this is the correct place to make a query about the control  lights on an EC51 but hopefully someone will point me in the right direction.  The water pump indicator LED is red & keeps beeping  even though I've filled up the tank, run all taps to make sure there is no airlock, emptied the waste, run hot water through the waste to ensure there is no blockage. Not sure where to go next as can't see any guidance in the manual.  Anyone who has had this problem & it has an easy solution - I'd be grateful.

If you press the water level test button (with the fresh water tank full) does it correctly show the level on the LEDs on the right? If so, it suggests that the sensor on the waste tank is not picking up the (lack of) fluid correctly. If not, it's a fault with the sensors on the fresh water tank, I would think.

Not sure what van you have though as your profile shows a 2001 van, but I don't think the EC51 was around then.

Sorry, will update my profile, I've just bought a 2013 Warwick Duo. It's the fresh water gauge/LED that's reading wrongly. But I wasn't sure if the waste tank had any bearings on the issue

As it says in the owner's manual, the red light above and to the right of the tank level switch should indicate if the waste tank is full. If that is not lit and the level indicator shows zero level in the fresh tank then that would seem to be the fault.

If you do a forum search you will find previous threads about this, though IIRC it's not easy to affect a permanent cure...