control panel Hab/Van Switch.

by Boston Blue Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:42 pm

Hi all, This may seem like an obviously silly question scratch head

. But then thats me smile!

, two weeks into AS ownership.

What is the centre position for , of the "HAB / VAN", battery switch for . Is it an "Off" position for when you are driving ?

by willconquerer Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:27 pm

by Paulmold Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:07 am

You don't have to select it when driving. It's simply a position that means neither battery gets charged when on hook-up. Better to leave on HAB at all times unless you want to charge the engine battery.

by Boston Blue Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:04 pm

Thanks Will and Paul, Most helpful smile!

.

by KMRTOPAZ Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:28 am

My experience is that both batteries are charged simultaneously.....very inefficiently ! Probably due to the unit sensing the state of the battery with the higher voltage and responding accordingly. You can check this by putting a voltmeter across each battery in turn with the switch in each of its three positions.
The best advice is given above. Leave it on Hab permanently unless you need to charge the Vehicle battery, in which case switch to Vehicle whilst on hook-up.

by Charliefarlie Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:34 am

KMRTOPAZ wrote:My experience is that both batteries are charged simultaneously.....very inefficiently ! Probably due to the unit sensing the state of the battery with the higher voltage and responding accordingly. You can check this by putting a voltmeter across each battery in turn with the switch in each of its three positions.
The best advice is given above. Leave it on Hab permanently unless you need to charge the Vehicle battery, in which case switch to Vehicle whilst on hook-up.

I'm a bit lost with this confused3

I thought we had to select the on position on the hab panel when on hook up ? Our van is on hook up right now as we are away tomorrow. In this position I thought both the vehicle battery and the Leisure battery are getting charged ? Is this correct ?

If not which buttons do I press so the vehicle battery gets charged while the fridge stays on ? Or better still both batteries charged while the fridge is on ?

Sorry I do find these things confusing to say the least !.

Thanks.

by Paulmold Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:00 am

Yours Charlie is a lot newer than the others and will have a Sargent panel. The early ones like mine has a much more simple MES panel. Someone with a Sargent system will be along shortly I'm sure.

by PLOUGHLIN Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:57 am

With the Sargent panel, on EHU only one battery is charged at once, depending on the button top right of the 4 buttons. Neon not lit, power comes from Leisure Battery and it is charged. Neon lit power comes from the vehicle battery and it is charged.

Both batteries are only charged together when engine running.

When off EHU, button still controls which battery supplies Hab 12v, with internal control to switch if voltage drops below a preset level.

Ie engine battery <10.9v, switch to leisure. When leisure gets to 6v, switches off.

I think. allthumbz

by Peter Brown Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:37 am

PLOUGHLIN wrote:With the Sargent panel, Both batteries are only charged together when engine running.

If a solar panel is fitted and connected via the Sargent unit, both batteries are charged together when NOT on hook up.

by PLOUGHLIN Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:43 am

Peter Brown wrote:
PLOUGHLIN wrote:With the Sargent panel, Both batteries are only charged together when engine running.

If a solar panel is fitted and connected via the Sargent unit, both batteries are charged together when NOT on hook up.

I don't have one of those. up!

by Charliefarlie Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:24 am

PLOUGHLIN wrote:With the Sargent panel, on EHU only one battery is charged at once, depending on the button top right of the 4 buttons. Neon not lit, power comes from Leisure Battery and it is charged. Neon lit power comes from the vehicle battery and it is charged.

Both batteries are only charged together when engine running.

When off EHU, button still controls which battery supplies Hab 12v, with internal control to switch if voltage drops below a preset level.

Ie engine battery <10.9v, switch to leisure. When leisure gets to 6v, switches off.

I think.

Im really struggling here...

Yesterday while prepping the vehicle for our trip I pressed the LB button to make sure the LB was fully charged. The vehicle has been on EHU since Sunday.
The display showed half way up or half charged. So I put a voltage meter on and it read 11.6 Volts which is not great,

I then called the dealer who sold me the van two months ago who were great and said pop straight over. By the time I got there the LB voltage had climbed to over 12 Volts. The journey over was just 6 miles.

Dealer tech tested a few things and eventually did a drop test and said the battery was in the yellow sector which says its neither good nor bad.

So I am now about to fit a new LB and Im wondering now if its needed or not ?

Charging circuit from the alternator is not in question neither is the charging from the vehicle boxes but Im still woefully confused over when the LB gets charged when on EHU ?

My basic understanding was that when on EHU both batteries get charged via the split charger on the vehicle ? Is this correct ? Cos if it isn't then my initial reading of 11.6 Volts would be expected as the van has not been driven for a couple of weeks.

I have read the handbook but I cant see where I press a button to select which battery is charged ?

I really could do with some help here before I spend 120 quid on a battery I don't need. It could be just a waste ?

Sorry I'm utterly confused.

by Peter Brown Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:34 am

Can you please give the model number of your Sargent power supply unit associated control panel?

I would expect the PSU to be either an EC225 or EC500.

by Charliefarlie Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:14 am

Peter Brown wrote:Can you please give the model number of your Sargent power supply unit associated control panel?

I would expect the PSU to be either an EC225 or EC500.

Hi Peter.. Its an EC51.

I've twigged now the part about the buttons and how they switch the charge from the LB to the VB... Im now wondering if I need that new battery or not ?

It was ordered yesterday and arrive at the dealers this morning and as we travel either late today or very early tomorrow morning I think I will have to collect and fit it if only for peace of mind.

The tech at the dealers should have realised how the control panel works. He frankly has less idea than I do..

Thanks again !

by Charliefarlie Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:15 am

Charliefarlie wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:Can you please give the model number of your Sargent power supply unit associated control panel?

I would expect the PSU to be either an EC225 or EC500.
Hi Peter.. Its an EC51.

I've twigged now the part about the buttons and how they switch the charge from the LB to the VB... Im now wondering if I need that new battery or not ?

It was ordered yesterday and arrive at the dealers this morning and as we travel either late today or very early tomorrow morning I think I will have to collect and fit it if only for peace of mind.

The tech at the dealers should have realised how the control panel works. He frankly has less idea than I do..

AHHHH Sorry just read your post again ! The control panel is EC51 I will go and look at the PSU .

Thanks again !

by Charliefarlie Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:18 am

PSU is an EC155....

Thanks.

by Peter Brown Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:33 am

Is the power switch of the top rh side of the EC155 switched on - when on EHU that switch switches the charger off/on independently of the control panel.

by Charliefarlie Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:18 pm

Peter Brown wrote:Is the power switch of the top rh side of the EC155 switched on - when on EHU that switch switches the charger off/on independently of the control panel.

Peter yes that switch is on. I replaced the LB and tested the charging circuits with a meter and it seems all is now well.

The real confusion revolved around the panel switching between the LB and the VB instead if charging both batteries as I expected and thought was the case. I can't imagine why it's set up this way.

Every day's a school day eh ?

Thanks for the help !

by Peter Brown Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:54 pm

We all had to start at one time.

by Charliefarlie Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:31 pm

Peter Brown wrote:We all had to start at one time.

Peter yes I realise that.. Its like all things once we know we never forget. Hopefully one day I can offer advice to newcomers like myself. Forums are an absolute boon when things go wrong ! Especially as we are off so soon.

Thanks again and to Ploughlin for his explanation as to how the control panel works.

I think once our first trip is under the belt it will be known whether we do need solar or not. If we don't I will look into maybe getting the system sorted so it charges both batteries at the same time..

by geoffc Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:12 pm

I was also confused by the Hab/Vehicle switch in my A-S Sussex (2003) so did some testing and this is what I found.
It only affects what happens when on EHU.
If switched to Hab then the habitation battery is charged.
If switched to Vehicle then the car battery is charged.
When left in the middle, neither battery is charged (not sure what the point of this is!?)
I also determined that this switch is independent of the 'master' on/off switch which means that the relevant battery will still be charged with the master switch off.
What I also found interesting was that this switch doesn't control what battery powers the 12v auxilliary equipment in the rear of the vehicle - it is always powered by the habitation battery. All the 'HAB' switch does here is to ensure that the Hab battery is being charged by EHU at the same time as powering the rear 12v equipment.
I hope this helps!

So, not being satisfied with the above arrangement, I changed the connectors on the back of the Hab/Vehicle switch so that the 12v equipment in the rear can be powered by either the Hab OR the Vehicle battery and if/when EHU is available the same battery (switch position) will also be being charged at the same time.
In this new configuration the centre position would mean that the rear 12v stuff would be powered only by the EHU with no battery (not really much benefit in this particular aspect but there you are!)
This also means that the meter can now display either the habitation battery or the vehicle battery condition (depending on the switch position) - something that wasn't possible before (it only ever showed the hab battery voltage).

Note that none of the above affects or changes how the alternator charges the battery when the engine is running.

One thing I still need to test is whether you can now get 12v in the rear while driving if switched to the vehicle battery (the habitation battery is isolated when the enging is running)

Finally, I was able to make more sense of the single-page wiring diagram I had for this A-S (note that it wasn't entirely accurate!). For some reason it didn't show any of these switches - now I've worked out what the 5-circle and 7-circle 'objects' are on that diagram - these are the 2 connectors that go to/from the contol unit! I can now work out how the control unit does its switching having traced the wires from those connectors to the actual switches on the control unit, so if anyone needs this information just ask.

by Boston Blue Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:33 pm

Nice one Geoff, Great research , i would mind that elec info, as we share similar AS Sussex vehicles.
incidentaly my tyre press sticker says 70 PSI on drivers door, does yours ? Seems high to me considering max inflation pressure on sidewall is 65. tyre size is 215/70 R15.

by geoffc Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:35 pm

OK so another test verified that with my new configuration, when the engine is running the Vehicle switch position continues to supply power to the rear 12v electrics -so you get the 12v sockets active for example - good for charging phones etc while on the move!

by geoffc Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:53 pm

Hi Boston Blue - not sure exactly what info you want but assuming you want to do the same config change that I did on the back of the Hab/Vehicle switch then follow these steps.
Turn off the EHU 1st (either unplug or flip the circuit-breaker switch).
Remove the 4 screws from the black control unit and ease it forward - there was plenty of slack in the wires (and in doing this you will see the 5-circle and 7-circle in-line connectors that are drawn on the diagram)
Prise off the 'piggy-back' connector from the Hab tag and take off the RED connector that comes from the 5-circle inline connector - put this back on the Hab tag (i.e. on its own).
Then prise off the orange tag from the centre connector (this is the 12v supply from the EHU) and put it onto the piggy-back connector (leaving the other Redish wire, that goes to the next switch along, still on the piggy-back connector).
Push this piggy-back connector onto the centre tag. (Note that I turned my piggy-back connector round as there was more space on one side of the center tag than the other - there was a very short tag also near the middle and in my case this was also connected to the center connector - which means it wouldn't matter if the piggy-back connecter touches this)
So now the EHU supply is on the middle tag AND connected to the master switch/rear 12v electrics (this is the setup when the switch is in the mid position).
When switched to the HAB position the Leisure battery is also in use/being charged by the EHU/feeding the rear electrics, and when switched to the Vehicle position the vehicle battery is being charged by EHU and is in use/being charged by the EHU/feeding the rear electrics

by Peter Brown Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:23 pm

The habitation circuitry is disconnected from the leisure battery whilst being charged by the alternator to stop the habitation apparatus being damaged by the high voltage from the alternator - I do not recommend you do this.

Modern vans allow the vehicle battery to supply the habitation system whilst pitched BUT have a safety device to disconnect if there is a risk of discharging the battery to the extent it won't start the vehicle, older vans do not!

Unless you are very aware about what you are doing both in modification and subsequent use I would caution against doing the modification suggested.

by geoffc Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:13 pm

Most likely you are only going to plug something in to the 12v socket say to charge or power a phone etc while on the move (i.e you won't be running the pump for example!), so this is no different to powering that same device from the cigar lighter socket in the front of the vehicle
Yes you could flatten your vehicle battery if you left it on 'Vehicle' when there was no EHU connected.
However you should know what you are doing if you change anything from what is standard.

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