Dorset/Symbol Table

Hi all.
We've just invested (heavily!) in a 2009 Dorset to replace our older Symbol. It's the ds bs. However, we're not sure about the rather unwieldy fold-down table which looks like my dear old Mums ironing board. The old Symbol had 2 neat tables with single legs. This Dorset has a small table and just one fitting for a single leg in the doorway but for more than 2 people we have to get the collapsible table out from the wardrobe. What I'd like to do is fit a new recess in the floor for the single leg but further back near the settee and convert the collapsible table top into a single leg table. Am making it clear?
Has anyone else done this? I'm slightly concerned about the fact that the I'll need 50mm below floor level for the leg hole recess and I'm not sure if there are any cross beams/cables below the floor to worry about. Autosleeper might be able to help but I thought I'd ask you first to see if anyone's done it already or has any good advice
Thanks for your help
John

I have seen a leg fitting that is surface mounted so no need to drill into floor, it is advertised for boats  ( marine table leg support ) cannot see any reason why you cannot use that.

The table top is the easy part, you can get the fitting and just screw it underneath, Fiamma make this, just check out Fiamma they may do the surface fitting one, for the floor.

I have done this with a bread board as I wanted a small coffee table and that works a treat, no difference you would just be using a large table top.

Regards,
Margaret

daisy mae wrote:I have seen a leg fitting that is surface mounted so no need to drill into floor, it is advertised for boats  ( marine table leg support ) cannot see any reason why you cannot use that.

Apart from tripping over the surface mounted one, you'll also need a shorter leg than standard or the table will be too high.

Yes I agree that the surface mounted version is a possibility but I'd rather go for the one that is flush fitted if it can be done.
John

John,

That sounds a good idea in principle, and if it could be made to work then a big improvement on the fold-out table, whose legs get in the way and make for an awkward dining experience.  I've briefly considered a similar modification in our Symbol but have never thought more about it until your post prompted me just now.

Several thoughts:

1.  I'd first want to check whether the fold-out table-top that you plan to use is too long for a single leg in its centre to be sufficiently firm and stable.  I'm thinking whether too much weight on one end (or more likely someone leaning on it) would make it unstable.  The suppliers of the leg fittings, whether Fiamma or elsewhere, may be able to advise.  Another source of information on fittings and size/mass loadings could be Hafele.co.uk.  They supply a huge range of architectural ironmongery, albeit not for motorhome application, but we're just interested in the physics at this point.

2.  Like you I'd want to be sure what was underneath the floor before committing with a holesaw.  If AS are unable to provide a drawing, then my advice would be to find means by which you can survey the underfloor arrangements.  Not easy but the use of glass-fibre semi-flexible rods (the sort that electricians use for fishing cable through small spaces) may be an answer.  Remove the existing leg fitting in the floor by the sliding door and use the hole as an inspection port, then with the rods  try to ascertain what obstacles, cables etc are under the floor.  If you have a warm air duct on the side of the raised floor in the side door aperture, I'd remove that and use the rods again to try and triangulate the underfloor arrangement.  You might also be able to use the rods under the bench seat if the stowage space there goes down to the original floor level of the base vehicle.

3.  You might even try to gain further insight by using a stud/cable finder on the floor to look for supports and services.

4.  When it comes to drilling the floor, I suggest making a hole smaller than needed for the leg fitting and use that as a further inspection port before making the full size hole.  If you to then need to abort making the bigger hole, the smaller one will be easier to plug - worst case planning.

Hopefully AS have sufficient information that you can avoid taking a more 'archeological' approach.  Interested to see what you get back from them.

Tim

symbol-bath wrote:John,

That sounds a good idea in principle, and if it could be made to work then a big improvement on the fold-out table, whose legs get in the way and make for an awkward dining experience.  I've briefly considered a similar modification in our Symbol but have never thought more about it until your post prompted me just now.

Several thoughts:

1.  I'd first want to check whether the fold-out table-top that you plan to use is too long for a single leg in its centre to be sufficiently firm and stable.  I'm thinking whether too much weight on one end (or more likely someone leaning on it) would make it unstable.  The suppliers of the leg fittings, whether Fiamma or elsewhere, may be able to advise.  Another source of information on fittings and size/mass loadings could be Hafele.co.uk.  They supply a huge range of architectural ironmongery, albeit not for motorhome application, but we're just interested in the physics at this point.

2.  Like you I'd want to be sure what was underneath the floor before committing with a holesaw.  If AS are unable to provide a drawing, then my advice would be to find means by which you can survey the underfloor arrangements.  Not easy but the use of glass-fibre semi-flexible rods (the sort that electricians use for fishing cable through small spaces) may be an answer.  Remove the existing leg fitting in the floor by the sliding door and use the hole as an inspection port, then with the rods  try to ascertain what obstacles, cables etc are under the floor.  If you have a warm air duct on the side of the raised floor in the side door aperture, I'd remove that and use the rods again to try and triangulate the underfloor arrangement.  You might also be able to use the rods under the bench seat if the stowage space there goes down to the original floor level of the base vehicle.

3.  You might even try to gain further insight by using a stud/cable finder on the floor to look for supports and services.

4.  When it comes to drilling the floor, I suggest making a hole smaller than needed for the leg fitting and use that as a further inspection port before making the full size hole.  If you to then need to abort making the bigger hole, the smaller one will be easier to plug - worst case planning.

Hopefully AS have sufficient information that you can avoid taking a more 'archeological' approach.  Interested to see what you get back from them.

Tim

Thanks Tim for your response. I've spoken to those helpful chaps at Autosleeper and they can see no reason why my plan shouldn't work. They suggested, as you did, that I inspect the area via the cupboard under the settee and also under the single seat. They did warn me to beware of the heating inlet duct which runs under the single seat. They said that there were no transverse beams in that area.
As far as the table top's concerned, our last older Symbol had a table on a leg that was, if anything, larger than the ironing board and we never had any difficulties with it wobbling unless dodgy words were used on the Scrabble board.
I'll investigate further.
Pip Pip
John

If it gives you confidence, John, my 2009 Symbol has an additional Fiamma table socket - it was fitted by or for a previous owner.

The centre of the socket is 290mm from the front of the bedlocker and 335mm from the forward-most edge of the bedlocker.

It is the one on the left in this picture:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


G

Thanks for going to the trouble of taking the photo Gram and yes, that's very useful. After further investigation I know that I have sufficient depth below the floor for the leg socket and now all I have to do is make sure that there's nothing there that I'm likely to drill/cut into. I want to mount my table leg further aft than yours .... about the middle of the settee. I plan to cut a hole in the side of the base of the cupboard which is under the settee. It will never be seen and can be covered if necessary. This will give me plenty of opportunity to make sure that all is clear where I plan to drill/cut my hole in the floor.

John, be aware that there are longitudinal beams under the floor.  These may prevent you seeing across the van below floor level.

You may be able to see where they are by removing the underfloor drawer at the rear of the vehicle and peering into the void.

G

Hmmm. Thanks for that.  I've just invested £20 in a mini camera on a long lead with a USB connector on the end. I shall be poking it in every nook and cranny with it connected to a laptop to see just what there is in there. I can poke this into the black hole alongside the eberspacher ducting and see what's what. I'll report back over the weekend. I had a feeling that there might be some sort of longitudinal beam in there. This will be a useful tool when I come to fit the backward looking camera which Father C is bringing I hope.

The mini camera (under £20 from a certain online distributor) strapped to a wire coathanger was just the job. There was just room to slide it into the void alongside the eberspacher trunking from under the settee. Since the camera had led lights in the head it lit up the space enough to see that there is plenty of room for a recessed table socket half way along the settee and half way across towards the single seat. No sign of any wires or mice but some dust.
I'm now thinking of hundreds of other jobs for which a mini camera (with lights) is essential!!
John

John,

I'm impressed, wish I'd known they were so cheap, as like you I can think of many situations where I could have used this.  Might ask Santa for one based on your experience.  Was this the product you used?  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microscope-Endoscope-Inspection-Auto-focus-Waterproof/dp/B00A487TPC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0R1DDQ195VPJFZ78W57Y

Now you have complete confidence to use the holesaw on your floor.

Tim

symbol-bath wrote:John,

I'm impressed, wish I'd known they were so cheap, as like you I can think of many situations where I could have used this.  Might ask Santa for one based on your experience.  Was this the product you used?  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microscope-Endoscope-Inspection-Auto-focus-Waterproof/dp/B00A487TPC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0R1DDQ195VPJFZ78W57Y

Now you have complete confidence to use the holesaw on your floor.

Tim

Tim. Yes that's the very one. Nice and neat and small enough to fit even into the eberspacher inlet grill. I had a few problems initially with it  ..... it doesn't work in one of my 2 USB ports but it does in the other. The software has to be downloaded from the company website. The camera can work with a number of other bits of software (Windows Movie Maker, Skype etc) but it has a limited focal length of about 3-6 inches and has a limited number of pixels and so it gives a grainy picture. Beyond 3-6 inches it's blurred but usable for my application but I didn't need high quality video.
Thanks for your interest.
John

John, thanks for that, really helpful.  Enjoy the new table.
Tim