LPG fuel level indication.

artheytrate wrote:I saw some motorhomes long terming in Benidorm connecting a Spanish gas bottle and regulator through the barbeque point, in effect connecting their gas supplies in reverse.

John.

This may seem a stupid question John but does that still pass through the regulator before getting to the onboard appliances? Can't visualise the internal set up.

BB, yes, the gas from an outside source would go into the tank via the refill valve fixed on the body of the vehicle. It would then pass through the tank, through the regulator, and onwards to the onboard appliances.

Jaytee, I've looked on the Gas-it tank supplier's website (they're in NW Wales) and it states that the cover fitted on the side of the tank is to be lined up at 105% from vertical (about 4 or 8 o'clock position, depending which end of the tank is viewed). This means it's slightly below horizontal. The measurement equates to about 27mm (or 1 1/8") below centreline on the outside diameter of the tank. Gas-it can supply a guage (£5 + postage) to set, or check, the tank alignment. I'm going out to look underneath my vehicle in a mo' and get an estimate using a 12" rule.

Yes AS above BB.

John.

Oh dear. before I went out to Winnie Winchcombe I made a cardboard template indicating the correct alignment of the side valve cover.

Even from the very awkward confines of the space under the vehicle I can see from my template that my gas tank needs to be moved radially by quite a bit! It's not far from horizontal at the moment, about 95 degrees, certainly less than 100 degrees and it should be at 105 degrees from vertical. (I can't find a degrees key on the keyboard)

Next thing is a chat with Gas-it (who are on annual holiday for a fortnight!) and the very nice people on aftersales at A/S.

stoneb wrote:BB, yes, the gas from an outside source would go into the tank via the refill valve fixed on the body of the vehicle. It would then pass through the tank, through the regulator, and onwards to the onboard appliances.

I might have misunderstood this - the surely the BBQ point on the side of a van is low-pressure?

The foreign (Spanish) gas bottle would therefore simply have it's own reg and feed gas straight into the low pressure systems on-board (cooker / fridge etc). The gas would not go into the onboard tank/bottles etc.

Unless I have misunderstood things!   

Steve

Correct Steve, Also on my new Broadway there's a sticker saying not to do this at the barbeque point, but as an ex gas engineer I can't see a problem with this especially if there's nowhere to fill your tank and your on a site for weeks on end.

John.

For clarification:

I had no knowledge of any of this before. In this thread there are mentioned two distinct methods of connecting and using a gas bottle when the on board tank is empty.

1. Connect a bottle without a regulator to the LPG filler point on the vehicle using a Gaslow (or designed for purpose equivalent) hose and connectors. When the tap on the bottle is opened, gas (not liquid) at cylinder pressure will fill the on board tank and will supply on board appliances via the built in vehicle gas regulator.

2 Connect a bottle WITH its own regulator to the external BBQ point and shut off the tap on the appliance side of the built in regulator. The bottle will supply all the on board appliances (as long as their individual taps are open). I have no knowledge of the reliability of the BBQ connectors so would have concerns about anyone using this method if they are not competent in gas fitting.

Peter

Why would a gas BBQ connection not "be reliable" and be used to supply the LP gas system.
This is just the same as connecting to a gas BBQ only reversed. Specialist gas engineer knowledge would not be required in this instance.

Roger7webster. With respect, if you read all the foregoing messages you will find that the matter is covered. I think you may well have misunderstood the manner and reasons for connecting a full gas cylinder to the vehicle for onboard appliance use.

I've just spoken with Alan at A/S service centre. A very helpful and pleasant chap. He says if the on board Gas-it brand fitted tank is aligned properly, the bottom edge of the aluminium gas valve cover should be just about level with the bottom of the tank when you draw an imaginary horizontal line.

It's raining hard outside right now.. I'm not too keen to go out to crawl underneath my 'van to look under it right now and check what he says! I believe though that my tank's valve cover is higher than this. The tank will need realigning I think.

Peter Brown's posting para 2 stated there may be problems connecting a regulated gas supply through the BBQ gas point.
I only stated that there was no problem and special gas engineer knowledge was not required in this instance.
I fully understand and am conversant with all aspects of this subject.

stoneb wrote:(I can't find a degrees key on the keyboard)

Hold down the 'Alt' key, type 0176 then release the 'Alt' key and you get °

Peter

Thank you Peter. I'm not sure my old frazzled brain will remember all the moves but, very interesting. 105° hey!° Barry.

artheytrate wrote:Yes AS above BB.

John.

Thanks John.

stoneb wrote:BB, yes, the gas from an outside source would go into the tank via the refill valve fixed on the body of the vehicle. It would then pass through the tank, through the regulator, and onwards to the onboard appliances.

Jaytee, I've looked on the Gas-it tank supplier's website (they're in NW Wales) and it states that the cover fitted on the side of the tank is to be lined up at 105% from vertical (about 4 or 8 o'clock position, depending which end of the tank is viewed). This means it's slightly below horizontal. The measurement equates to about 27mm (or 1 1/8") below centreline on the outside diameter of the tank. Gas-it can supply a guage (£5 + postage) to set, or check, the tank alignment. I'm going out to look underneath my vehicle in a mo' and get an estimate using a 12" rule.

Many thanks stoneb.

Dutto wrote:

plato2012 wrote:I previously reported in a separate thread that the LPG level gauge showed empty after on 5 nights use of my new unit (no hook up used) and when I refilled the tank it would only accept 8 Litres. The 25 Litre tank should take 20 Litres to fill from empty.

I visited Willersey yesterday and was advised that the tank had been incorrectly fitted at an angle, it was removed, refitted and filled. I am advised that I should now have a correct reading but it will take some time to prove as my next 3 trips are on sites where LPG usage will be minimal.

Hi there,

To paraphrase a saying "There are lies, damned lies and the information provided by instruments!!"

We use two ordinary cylinders rather than a re-fillable tank; and every time I see a post on the subject of inbuilt LPG tanks I breathe a sigh of relief that we don't use the system.

In any given circumstance we know 100% that we have a cylinder of gas available or, if we have recently changed over, enough LPG onboard to last at least a week before we have to buy a replacement.

It is our belief that the pennies saved by using inbuilt systems is by far outweighed by the problems that seem to be inherent with them.  

Best regards,
 

The gauge isn't accurate, but if you use it as an indicator, you get used to how it works. When our gauge shows a red light, I know it will take about 12 litres to fill it up. That means I have 10 litres unused. If I use 12 litres in a week, I know I will empty the tank in another 4 or 5 days.
I don't see any problems in that, certainly nothing that would make me ever go back to bottled gas with all the fiddling about changing, storing bottles where I could store other things, and lugging heavy bottles around, if you can find a supplier with stock in the bbq season!
Then there's the problem getting bottles abroad..........
On board tanks, with their inaccurate gauges, are just so much more convenient.
Allan

Today I phoned AS Service dept and spoke with another very helpful chap called Pat.

I've arranged to pay a brief visit to his workshop and have them check the tank alignment, first thing Monday morning on my journey to Coventry.

After speaking to Pat I braved the improving weather and crawled under Winnie Winchcombe's belly. "In-for-a-penny, in-for-a-pound" I thought, and slacked off the nuts holding the tank in it's frame. I managed to move the tank round to what I think is correct alignment, about 28mm  movement!! A rubber 'shim' got dislodged from between the tank and its frame - it came out on its own easily enough, but not easy to get back into place. The tank gauge still reads full (I refilled it last time on the way home.)

Only time can tell how accurately the gauge indicates from here on. I can only hope it improves somewhat.

As mentioned on another thread of this website, I visited A/S repair workshop on 18th Aug and had fantastic service from them. I really cannot thank the staff their enough. 

As soon as I arrived, my Winchcombe was attended to by the workshop staff, work detailed by Pat and Mark. 

The gas tank was turned even further than I had done. These fitted gas tanks have been fitted only to vehicles built within the last 12 months, I think. Therefore, when it was originally at chassis build stage, I can only imagine the fitter had no previous experience to go by and had lined up the tank from first principles, ie with the gas valve box at 90° to vertical. I'm certainly not going to criticise that because I would more than likely have done the same thing. It's often the case with these sort of things that details do not reach the fitter until someone points out the results of their experience and contacts the after sales department with a problem.

I can only wait for experience to indicate whether these changes have been beneficial to the tank's use (I don't doubt it will have been).

I too had concerns when I fitted my underslung 25l tank, so I called Gas-it  & a very helpful fella there told me to arrange for the alloy housing to be level with the lowest part of the tank, which I did & everything has been fine, BUT, surly it must be possible to have a cast-in vertical 'arrow' somewhere to indicate the orientation of the assembly, 'aint rocket science is it.

Before I refilled, the indicator on the dash showed one green light (when that goes out you are left with a red light that says to me "nearly empty, refill soon"). I also checked the manual gauge inside the gas valve box on the side of the tank. It showed about 15% full.

I refilled Winnie's on-board gas tank yesterday, it took just 10.4 litres, suggesting the tank had been about 45% full of gas relative to a 80% fill capacity?

This makes me wonder whether there is about 6 litres "reserve" gas prior to empty. Therefore, 10.4 litres refilled on top of 3.6 litres that must equate to the 15% indicated on the manual gauge. Total of 20 litres = 80% full 25 litre tank.

In future, for me, a red light means I still have usable gas. I shan't worry so much. If no lights show on the dash gauge then I'd better get to a gas station soon!