Tank cleaning and descaling.

What suggestions for cleaning/ de scaling the fresh water systems/ boiler. We have a Sussex duo with Truma combi E4. Truman recommend yearly, unsure of what product can do the job efficiently.
Thanks
Tengah74

Hi there,

A 50/50 mixture of citric acid (lemon juice) and acetic acid (vinegar) will shift most scale deposits without sticking anything dangerous into the system!

The weaker the mixture the longer it will need to be left in place.  For a "straight out of the bottle" mixture letting it sit for 24 hour before rinsing it out should be okay but for weaker solutions I suggest you leave it for three days before rinsing it out with two or three batches of fresh water.

If it has any "taste" after three rinses then fill it up, let it sit for 24hrs and then rinse it out again.

Alternatively, you can buy a proprietary "scale remover" for ten times the price and discover that they probably contain ………. citric acid and acetic acid mixture!

If you are in any way dubious about this advice, please try it on your electric-kettle first and see what happens!   

Hope this helps.  

Best regards,
 

Many thanks for the info. I'll give it a go the weekend.

DO NOT SWITCH THE WATER HEATER ON and DO leave at least one tap open. If in doubt about this try it in your kettle! CO2 is produced and needs to be alllowed to escape. Heat makes the reaction very rapid.

inspiredron wrote:DO NOT SWITCH THE WATER HEATER ON and DO leave at least one tap open. If in doubt about this try it in your kettle! CO2 is produced and needs to be alllowed to escape. Heat makes the reaction very rapid.

I agree.   

Mia culpa!! My apologies for not mentioning these elements.   

Best regards,
 

Thanks all for your advice.

Hi 74, Never had to do a descale in any water system. However we always used Milton to sterilize a new water system to us. 
regards

mike

A simple question; how do you get the mixture into the hot water tank?

On my Duettos (a MK5 and a MK7) the only simple way that I could see, would be to drain the water system and then fill the fresh (cold) tank (with the mix) and thus feed through to the hot tank when the system was primed. Whilst this would work, it does imply a lot of mixture, so what have I been missing? Is there a simple way of filling just the hot tank?

Nope! But you don't have to FILL the cold! It is harder for those of us with the Whale filler where it has to pumped in from a bucket and not poured in.

Thanks all. The way I see it, put the de scaling fluid into the fresh water tank, about 15/20 litre mix, pump on for a short time, transferring the fluid into the hot water tank without going through the open taps. Leave for the recommended time and then drain through the tank drain into a suitable bucket. Flush the system a few times. Thats assuming the first port of call in the water system once the pump is on will be the heater !!
Look forward to any comments.

Tengah 74
.

Hi there,

METHOD ONE

Empty the fresh water tank and then close off the drain valve.

Fill bucket with diluted vinegar/lemon juice mixture.

Empty via a funnel into the FW tank.

Start pump with ONLY cold tap open.

When mixture running from cold tap close off and open hot tap.

When mixture running from hot tap close off tap and wait for pump to stop.  (If it does't stop it means there wasn't enough mixture put into the tank so add more until pump stops on automatic.)

When the pump stops it means that the hot-water heater is full and the pump is full.

Turn off the electricity supply to the pump and open the hot water tap.  (Some of the mixture will flow out as the expansion chamber loses pressure and leaving the tap open will allow any CO2 produced by the acids to escape.)

Leave the chemicals to do their work then drain the FW tank and rinse the system until there is no "taste".



SUGGESTED ALTERNATIVE METHOD (NOT USED PERSONALLY, BUT IT SHOULD WORK OKAY)

Drain the FW tank and the water heater.

Open a hot tap.

Using a tube, soft cone-shaped adaptor, 1m length of hose and a funnel:

o  Connect the adaptor and funnel together with the hose.

o  Press the connector into the water heater drain and raise the funnel to a height higher than the open hot water tap.

o  Pour sufficient vinegar/lemon juice mixture down the funnel until the mixture runs out of the hot tap.

o  Replace the connector with a bung to temporarily seal the mixture in the water-heater.  (Immediately rinse off any of the mixture that spills on to the paintwork.)

Leave the hot tap open as before and let the chemicals to do their work before draining the water heater. (Again, immediately rinse off any of the mixture that spills on to the paintwork.)

Fill and empty the FW system a few times until there is no "taste".

Hope this helps.   

Best regards,
 

mikethebike wrote:Hi 74, Never had to do a descale in any water system. However we always used Milton to sterilize a new water system to us. 
regards

mike

Mike,

Milton is a "chloride" based product and chlorine is not recommended for use with stainless steels as it causes "stress corrosion cracking".

Best regards,
  
Ian

Reference:

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Nice one Dotto. Thanks for that. Appreciate all who have replied. Have a good summer.

Hi Ian, Nice one, stop scaremongering.its only 1% and not in the tank for long. there are many types of stainless steel as you well know.!  

regards

mike

Hi Ian, thought of a better reply. Its better than drinking all that acid you use for descaling. well unless you use an awful lot of water to flush.What does it taste like ?
regards

mike

Dutto,
Like your recommended process 1.
Having made up the 50/50 mix of citric acid (lemon juice) and acetic acid (vinegar) what sort of concentration of said mix would you use i.e. ration mix:water and for how long.

Ken

On my van K would not bother opening the cold tap. Having put the mixture into the FW tank I would close all taps, switch on the pump and then open the nearest hot tap to the boiler. As soon as you have free flow after the initial spluttering turn off the pump, leaving the solution to do its work overnight with the hot tap still open to release the CO2. Then drain and rinse.
By the way, Ian, although the Italians say Mamma Mia, the Romans would have said mEa culpa!   

Hiya,

1.  How long?  Overnight is good.

2.  I gave up Latin at thirteen but still get the "guilt" that came with the lessons!  Mea culpa!

3.  What does it taste like?  A cheap wine that is corked until it's been flushed out!  (Put a drop of Cassis in it and like wine it becomes palatable!)

4.  Mike, the ability of chlorine and its products to attack stainless steel increases at higher temperatures.  e.g. in water heaters.  If you check out the MSDS for the Truma Aquastar 3 (disinfectant and steriliser) you will find that it uses hydrogen peroxide as the active ingredient rather than a chlorine compound such as sodium hypochlorite for just this reason.

Best regards,
  
Ian

Reference:
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yes they sell that. Bleach. See all the safety precautions on that data sheet.!!  
Milton is not used heated.
the risk to s/s is negligable and also safe for humans, used in the circumstances we are talking about.
sorry Ian

regards

mike

Mike,

Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is a "bleaching agent" (as used in hairdressing salons to produce "peroxide blondes") but it is not the stuff we commonly refer to as "bleach" and buy in the shop.

This is sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) which is a chlorine compound.

Sorry.

  
Ian

Reference:
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PS I stick two litres of Tesco's Thin Bleach into my rainwater system at least once a month to keep the bacteria at bay.

Hi there,

The "soak time" is dependent on concentration (i.e. the higher the concentration the less time it will need).

To descale a kettle half a litre of vinegar and half a litre of lemon juice will do the trick in less than two hours.

However, for a FW system a litre of vinegar and a litre of lemon juice mixed with with 10 litres of water and left for 24 hours should be sufficient.

Best regards,
 

Mike,

The fact that Milton is a chlorine based compound doesn't stop me throwing a couple of tablets into the FW tank every so often to keep it sterilised; but we don't use the water-heater immediately afterwards!

Best regards,
  
Ian

Hi Ian, Its all a bit of a storm in a teacup.
I only did it once when i bought s/h Boats and s/h motorhomes.Not felt it was necessary to do on a regular or irregular timescale. I only did on the cold water side ,as i recall.
Maybe having never done the descaling ,i must have nice soft water in my travels!
regards
mike

mikethebike wrote:Hi Ian, Its all a bit of a storm in a teacup.
I only did it once when i bought s/h Boats and s/h motorhomes.Not felt it was necessary to do on a regular or irregular timescale. I only did on the cold water side ,as i recall.
Maybe having never done the descaling ,i must have nice soft water in my travels!
regards
mike

Mike,

When you visit us in Skegness, check out the kettle!!!

This is a "hard water" area in Spades!!

Looking forward to your visit!!   

Best regards,
      
Ian