Premium and Winter Packs.

bernieproberts wrote:Hi Allan, I have looked at the CAK web site and cannot find the Tank De-Frost Element Installation & Use Instructions on their 2014 web pages. It is this PDF document  TECHSHEET-TankDe-FrostElement17-1-08.pdf. I am not able to put it on the forum but they may be able to send it to you.
Bernie

Thanks again Bernie. I have emailed them to see if they can let me have a copy. All my insulation stuff arrived today, and of course, it started raining as soon as I got it out of the box!
I'll get started with it next week, weather permitting. I am thinking of dropping the waste tank to insulate it and fit the element ( access cap is on the top) It will give me the opportunity to give it a good clean out, the sensors are telling me its full all the time!. The freshwater tank will be insulated where it is, I don't fancy dropping that one.
I will be getting some Sikaflex to seal the tank where the elements go in. 
Interestingly, I spoke to someone at Sargent today and asked him about the tank heater switch on my EC480 panel. When I press it, the blue light comes on and I hear a relay operating. He said the wiring should be there, or at least 2 spade terminals that I can use to power the heaters. 
I just need to find them now!
Allan

Andyiow, I would say thats the heater switch. I am going to our local dealers tomorrow, I'll ask about where they fit the tank heater switch and what it looks like. This is the switch on mine. Bottom button is for the step, top switch turns on the LED strip lights seating area.

Hi Allan. Very interested in how you get on with removing the waste tank. It is a great idea to practice on it in the warm and dry. My fresh water tank took some time to insulate with the measuring and fitting each part while under the motorhome. Underneath the tank I fitted three pieces of insulation. The two side pieces I held to the bottom with double sided tape to stop it sagging. The centre piece I taped around the edges in case it I needed to open the inspection cap in the future.
Having a heater switch on your EC480 could be a great advantage if the unit switches off the heater if the battery gets very low when off electric hook-up or switched on inadvertently.
Hope the weather is better for you next week, Bernie

ajrm wrote:

bernieproberts wrote:Hi Allan, I have looked at the CAK web site and cannot find the Tank De-Frost Element Installation & Use Instructions on their 2014 web pages. It is this PDF document  TECHSHEET-TankDe-FrostElement17-1-08.pdf. I am not able to put it on the forum but they may be able to send it to you.
Bernie

Thanks again Bernie. I have emailed them to see if they can let me have a copy. All my insulation stuff arrived today, and of course, it started raining as soon as I got it out of the box!
I'll get started with it next week, weather permitting. I am thinking of dropping the waste tank to insulate it and fit the element ( access cap is on the top) It will give me the opportunity to give it a good clean out, the sensors are telling me its full all the time!. The freshwater tank will be insulated where it is, I don't fancy dropping that one.
I will be getting some Sikaflex to seal the tank where the elements go in. 
Interestingly, I spoke to someone at Sargent today and asked him about the tank heater switch on my EC480 panel. When I press it, the blue light comes on and I hear a relay operating. He said the wiring should be there, or at least 2 spade terminals that I can use to power the heaters. 
I just need to find them now!
Allan

Andyiow, I would say thats the heater switch. I am going to our local dealers tomorrow, I'll ask about where they fit the tank heater switch and what it looks like. This is the switch on mine. Bottom button is for the step, top switch turns on the LED strip lights seating area.

Thanks. I don't know what to look at underneath either I can't see anything that resembles a jacket around the tank there are wires and a connection at the base of the tanks.

As far as I know, Autosleeper only fit the tank heaters as an optional extra, i.e., they are normally ordered from new ( or retrofitted). If yours has a tank heater, it will probably be one of two types. Either an element through one of the sides of the tank ( generally just the freshwater tank) or a heating pad affixed to the underside. Either way, you should see some wires coming from the pad or element.
Try turning the switch on and looking at the battery meters to see if there is a current drain from the leisure battery. If there is then it is connected to something?
You should see 4 sets of wires coming out of each tank vertically anyway, these are the water level sensors
Allan

ajrm wrote:As far as I know, Autosleeper only fit the tank heaters as an optional extra, i.e., they are normally ordered from new ( or retrofitted). If yours has a tank heater, it will probably be one of two types. Either an element through one of the sides of the tank ( generally just the freshwater tank) or a heating pad affixed to the underside. Either way, you should see some wires coming from the pad or element.
Try turning the switch on and looking at the battery meters to see if there is a current drain from the leisure battery. If there is then it is connected to something?
You should see 4 sets of wires coming out of each tank vertically anyway, these are the water level sensors
Allan

Thanks Allan will take some pictures tomorrow. 
Andy

Hi Andy. I started a thread some time ago about frost heaters and this is part of a reply i got from another member, who had a frost heater fitted from new. Looks like your switch is for a frost heater.
Allan

"I picked up my Broadway FB in May2013 and on ordering made sure I had a frost protection fitted to the water tank in the deal. I have a seperate switch with a red light just inside the habitation door."

Just got back from the dealers, I asked about the tank heater switch, it seems they do fit a switch with a red light just inside the hab door on some models, but all the new ones with the TankBlankets are wired back to the EC480 control panel.
I had a look at the new 2014 Autosleepers while I was there. All the vans in the showroom had tank blankets fitted. No other insulation anywhere else, so all the pipework is still exposed and of course the tank walls are open to the elements too. I am sure the heaters work, but there is nothing to keep the heat in, so they will working virtually constantly when the temperature drops. Not ideal.

When I fit my frost heaters and lagging, I won't be using the control panel to control them because it all shuts down with the engine running, I'd like to keep the tanks warmer when travelling otherwise they could freeze up on a good long run.
Just waiting for a hole saw to be delivered and I'll get started on the tanks.
Allan

With AS now having a dealer in Sweden, I hope the vans being exported there are better equipped to deal with winter.

http://www.auto-sleepers.co.uk/find-a-dealer/motorhome-dealers#internationaldealersheader

That will be interesting to see. They should really either build the tanks and pipe work into a (heated) false floor or completely lag everything as well as fitting the tank blankets. It seems to me that whoever decided on the winter pack really had no idea of the effect of freezing conditions on water. It's no good having a tankful of unfrozen water if all the supply and drain pipes are frozen.
Hopefully, people with the winter pack fitted will report back on their experience through the winter, both here and in Sweden......
Allan

So, I took the waste tank down, gave it a good clean out and fitted the frost heater through a cleanly drilled hole at the bottom of the tank close to the drain pipe. I wrapped the tank with the insulating wrap and taped it all up well. Almost 2 x 11m rolls of Gorilla tape!
The tank is back in place with a 2 core cable connected to the heater element.
I have the rear of the Sargent control panel exposed and cabling from the heater inside the locker. I was just going to fit 2 switches for the tanks, but I don't really fancy drilling holes in the seat base, so I rang Sargent to see if they could supply a wiring harness for the heaters. I have a switch on the EC480 control panel that operates a relay in the EC500 panel, so all the main wiring is in place. I just need a connector to plug into the back of the panel with wiring to the tank heaters. Sargent are going to supply me with one and I will make the choice when I get it if I use their harness or my own wiring / switches.
I think the Sargent panel monitors the tank levels and switches the heaters off if it gets too low, and of course switches them off if the battery gets too low, so that may be worth having.

As soon a s the weather improves ( stops raining) I will insulate the front tank and fit the frost heater to that. Then I need to fit the waterproof pipe wrap ( Armaflex) to all the pipes and drains underneath. The only problem I have is that the water feed pipes are very short and rub against the lpg gas tank I will have to lengthen them so I can get the insulation wrap around them and keep the pipes away from the cold gas tank.
Then the big switch on.

Total cost so far is about £250. My dealer wanted around £320 just to fit one tank blanket ( £124 for the blanket, 3hrs labour at £65 per hour!) No pipe or tank insulation included!!!
Allan

Thanks for all the good work. You are certainly keeping the frost at bay for the moment.

Peter

Hi Allan,
 
It sounds as if you did a great job with the waste water tank. In the summer I will do the same as I will not be going abroad this year and leaving the tap open has worked so far. To remove the tank and completely wrap insulation around it is the answer but I didn’t fancy doing that to the fresh water tank with all the pipes and wires connected to it.
If you wire the heaters into the EC480/EC500 system does this mean that both heaters come on together or can you select just one? The system sounds good if you get battery protection as well. I wish they had provided it in my EC328 system.
All the best for the fresh water tank with this constant rain.
 
Bernie

Hi Bernie, I won't be removing the fresh tank either, there doesn't appear to much clearance between the tank and cross members either side of it for the insulation, I'm hoping the top of the tank will be a little protected where it is and with the heater on, it should be ok. Biggest problem is that I will have to extend the two water feed pipes because they are so tight across the lpg tank.
I think the wiring harness from Sargent is about £40!. Not sure what it includes, but they are going to email with details tomorrow. I'm in two minds whether to use it or my own switches. If I use my own, I can run the heaters whenever I want, even with the engine running. Using the Sargent panel will be safer, but not convenient if it turns everything off when I start the engine. I might wire both systems in with a changeover switch. Still not too keen on the price though if its just a plug and a few metres of wiring!
I'll update the thread when its all finished.
Allan

Well, it wasn't a plug and a few metres of wiring, it was two plugs and 10 metres of wiring, cost, £30.
The two plugs ( one white flat 4 pin with two Pos wires and one red 4 pin square, 2 black wires) plug into the rear of the EC500. According to Sargent, they just switch both tank heaters on and off, no water level monitoring, but both heaters are thermostatically controlled and can safely be run with no water, so thats not a problem. Of course, the EC500 will monitor the power draw and shut them down if the voltage drops too much.
I finished lagging the fresh water tank a couple of days ago and the water feed pipes are now well lagged, so thats all pipes and both tanks sorted. Looks like part of a space shuttle under there!
I installed the wiring through the EC500 and connected it all up, of course, its too warm here now to see if they work.
Total cost was just over £300. I will look at fitting a changeover switch at some point if I feel the tanks need heating whilst travelling, but for now, I'll keep it as it is.

Allan

Congratulations Allan.
 A tough job at this time of year with such wet weather. You must be very fit now with all the sliding under the motorhome to insulate the tank and fit the heater. Using the EC500 seems a good idea as it will also protect the battery if you are not using mains electricity.
Did the £125 for the single tank blanket from A-S include the blanket iController?
Hope you have a great time going towards the Alps. Let us know how well the system worked and if you needed the change over switch.
 
Bernie

Thanks Bernie, I don't know about fit, but my back is still recovering. There are some sharp parts under there too....
I don't think the Tankblankets included the icontroller as it's £144 on its own, but the CakTanks heater is thermostatically controlled anyway.
I'll let you know how we get on, not sure it even works yet, not cold enough to test it out!
Allan

has anyone tried fitting a pipe frost protection cable to the fresh water tank and feed pipe?
this is the description:-

Pipe Frost Protection Heating Cable Kit


Kit Contents:
Frost Protection Heating cable complete with fully waterproof (IP67 Rated) inline thermostat and a 1.5 metre long, 3 core power supply cable
Plastic tie wraps
Caution Labels
Full installation instructions
Product Description:
Please note that the inline thermostat within our kit is fully waterproof to IP67 rating. Other products that look similar are simply a plastic box with no waterproof filling within the thermostat housing
The thermostat will automatically switch on when the temperature drops below 3 degrees (+/- 1degree) and automatically switch off when the temperature rises above 3 degrees.
Pipe frost protection heating cable kit suitable for a wide range of external and internal cold water pipe applications where freezing can occur. Including boiler condensate discharge lines, farms, caravan parks and camp sites, stables, lofts, garages holiday homes and lodges, outbuildings and sheds.
Full Self Regulating heating system for safety and low running cost. Heating cable can be touching, crossed over itself or trapped in the thermal insulation. It will not overheat or damage itself or the pipe.
Safe for plastic and metal pipes.
Fully terminated. Just needs attaching to the pipe and connecting to mains.
Can be installed into a fused spur or just simply installed into a plug
10 Year warranty

see ebay item 350944997294

when we went away in our previous Nuevo in freezing conditions it was the pipe from the tank that froze first. This kit comes with up to 6m heater cable which could be wrapped around the tank and feed pipe. When we go away in winter we always go for electric hookup - so might be a cost effective solution at about£35.