Gas question from Ireland

Hi

I hope someone can help me. I have a 2005 Duetto, new to me, and the previous owner never used gas. I'm ready to go now gas wise, its all been checked out and a new Irish connection for a 6kg propane cylinder attacheded (screw on). My gas man and camper repair guy tell me I can get a 6kg red cylinder here but shops and garages say they are not available in Southern Ireland. I can get a patio 6kg propane lite silver cylinder but I'll need another new connector, push on, and I dont know if ithe cylinder will fit in the Duetto gas locker. Has anyone bought a red 6kg cylinder in SE Ireland or does anyone use the irish patio calor lite in a Duetto .With different bottles and connectors in the UK and Ireland ,Calor dont make it easy.

The 'experts' I've spoken to recently have given the following 'helpful' info: Propane is cleaner than butane, you'd have to live in Alaska before temperatures would affect butane and all Irish motorhomers use Butane. :think_smiley_4I met one shopkeeper who seemed to know his stuff but spoiled it by telling me I should go home and discuss it with my husband or partner ! Obviously too terchnical for a mere female and the thougt of a solo female camper was beyond his imagination. Bless him!

Looking forward to my first cuppa brewed in the van.

Anne

I can't help with the sourcing of a cylinder in Ireland but unless you will only use the van in warm weather you should use Propane:







Propane or Butane?



The physical properties of the two gases are very similar, and when regulated to the correct pressure, they will perform almost identically. However there are some important differences.



Of the two gases, Butane has the most advantages.

• It is less toxic and so can legally be used and stored indoors. Litre for litre, it contains around 12% more energy than Propane and so you can squeeze more running time into the same sized bottle. (Butane is heavier than Propane though, so weight for weight it's a pretty close call.)
  
• Butane also burns cleaner than Propane (although this isn't normally a serious issue in caravanning.)
  
• Finally, while it's not strictly a property of the gas, Butane canisters generally use clip-on type connections. These are far more convenient than the Propane screw type connections, especially if you swap bottles around regularly (as you might if you also use your caravan bottle to run a barbecue.)
  

Conversely, Propane has only one advantage over Butane - but it's a big one!

• In order to be usable, the liquid in the bottle must be able to boil into a gas. In the case of Butane, this will happen at any temperature above -2C, whereas with Propane, this figure is much lower, at -42C. In the real world, it's not so clear cut. Whenever some of the liquid boils into gas, the remaining liquid cools. It is therefore possible for the temperature of the liquid to drop to several degrees below ambient. This can easily prevent a Butane canister from producing a useful gas supply, even when the outside temperature is several degrees above 0C. A compromise can be reached by mixing Propane with Butane, but as far as I'm aware, none of the UK 'big bottle' suppliers actually do this. The small gas cartridges that are produced for camping stoves and gas lamps are often Propane/Butane mixes. So choosing the right gas pretty much boils down to whether you need to use it in freezing (or near freezing) conditions. If this is likely, then Propane is a must. If not, then Butane has the edge.
  

Peter

Have you contacted Calor themselves? Their website for Eire ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] has a find-a-retailer page. I wonder if the shops and garages you have tried are proper Calor dealers? The Eire website shows the same connectoron their propane bottles as we get in the UK. Just a thought.....

Rgds
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Mikebro

6Kg propane cylinders are not available in Ireland. The 11kg cylinders look similar to the UK version but the fittings are different and there are two different fittings available!

I use two UK Propane cylinders for trips to the UK and two Butane cylinders for use here in Ireland, swapping the regulators as necessary. I have never had low temperature problems with Butane. The two cylinders will last me approx. 6 weeks touring using the fridge on gas, water heating and occasional use of the heater in the van.

David

Annevan wrote: Has anyone bought a red 6kg cylinder in SE Ireland or does anyone use the irish patio calor lite in a Duetto .With different bottles and connectors in the UK and Ireland ,Calor dont make it easy.:confused3:Anne

If anyone had managed to buy a 6kg, then you have the problem when you want a refill - could you find an excuse (or arrange a trip) to go over the border and get one in N.I?

I plan on using propane but as I cant get 6 kg red bottles here in the south I will have to use the patio light gas with another new connector. I phoned Calor a few days ago, they were no help. They gave me phone numbers of nearby suppliers, two had closed down and one never had anything to do with Calor.

I think the Duetto will only hold one 6 kg lite gas so I may get my old butane campingaz cylinder filled and use my old connector with that as its small enough to fit in the locker as a spare. Also if I run out of Irish bottle propane in the UK I can use my campingaz there. Is it easy to get? I'm going to Scotland soon.

 Maybe the Duetto came with a 6kg and 3.9kg bottle originally. Can't get 3.9 here either.

There's a regulator on the wall of the locker and a sign saying 'do not use additional regulator'. The patio gas connects with a propane push down reg. Is this a problem?

Thanks for all the help

Anne

Annevan wrote:
There's a regulator on the wall of the locker and a sign saying 'do not use additional regulator'. The patio gas connects with a propane push down reg. Is this a problem?

Yes, in that using two regulators in series probably won't work - there probably won't be enough pressure at the second regulator to allow it to pass gas through. What you would need is a high-pressure pigtail to connect from the patio gas cylinder to the existing fixed regulator. I've never seen such a thing, but that does not mean that they don't exist.

BTW, as a Camping Gaz user myself (for reasons of space saving), I should warn you that refill prices in the UK are shockingly high compared to any other brand...

A pigtail ???? Is that another name for a hose and connector?

Hi there,

Please read the Factsheet section of the Forum where it explains the properties of the two common gases.

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and

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Personally, I don't like the "push-on" type of connector because I am old fashioned and much prefer using a washer and a screw fitting.

I also don't use propane because we tend to go south for the winter and therefore we very seldom use "Petal" when it is below freezing; and if we do then we have EHU and use an electric heater.

As a result, we have two 4.5kg Calor Butane bottles that we use in the UK and a Camping Gaz R907 butane bottle for use when we are overseas.

When we are abroad (like now) we use the Camping Gaz bottle all the time except when it runs out; at which time we switch temporarily to the Calor Gas bottle until we can renew the Camping Gaz.  We haven't run out of Calor Gas even staying away from the UK for up to six months!

Camping Gaz is expensive in Britain but a) Available all over Europe and b) Not all that expensive anywhere else but the UK.

A "pigtail" is the length of pipe between the fixed copper piping installed in the motorhome and the regulator.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Annevan wrote:A pigtail ???? Is that another name for a hose and connector?

The term "pigtail" tends to be used for a high-pressure hose with threaded connections at each end. You should not use push-on hose connectors in this situation, as the gas pressure (because it is ~before~ the regulator) is much higher.

It should be mentioned that the gas locker in Dutto's version of the Duetto is accessed from the inside and (although perfectly safe) has much less ventilation than the vast majority of gas lockers.  The gas bottles are therefore kept much warmer than in most vans and hence Duttos satisfaction with butane.

Peter

My gas locker is accessed from outside. i want propane as I will be using van in winter and now know the only irish propane bottle which will fit in Duetto is the patio lite with a push on reg.

So I suppose either my pigtail with a screw on  top for large propane cylinders will also work on the lite or I will have to find another pigtail. Hopefully the former.

Off to buy a bottle today, fingers crossed.

Thanks Anne

Hi Anne

If the only propane cylinder you can get uses the push on connector that includes a regulator you will have to have the vans built in regulator bypassed by a gas installer - a caravan workshop would be the best place.  You will then be tied to using that type of cylinder unless the installer creates a parallel installation with isolation taps.

Peter

Hi there,

We have two regulators for two bottles.

We use this to swap over between the two Butane Cylinders.

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We can then have two Calor Gas Butane or a Calor Gas Butane and a Camping Gaz cylinder in the locker.

This is what we use on top of the Camping Gaz cylinder.  It fits an ordinary Calor Gas Butane regulator.

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I agree with Peter that any mods made to the current system should be carried out by a qualified person as you only get one chance with any of the gases!

Hope this helps.

Best regards,