Electrical problem

Hi,

I am new to the forum and have posted an introduction elsewhere - we have a 1998 Duetto which we bought 3 years ago and have had trips to the lakes and southern Ireland from our base in Suffolk and want to take it to France in July.
We had a problem with the radio cassette player a couple of years ago and I replaced it last year with a radio/cd player bought of ebay which seemed a simple job and it may be coincidence but on our next trip we realised that the 12v system was only working if plugged into the mains supply.
At first I thought it was the leisure battery as this was very old and replaced this whilst in Ireland but it made no difference.
Having read a few threads elsewhere I suspect it could be a fuse blown but I have no idea where this could be.
The manual says there is a fusebox with the leisure battery under the passenger seat but the battery is actually in the engine compartment and I cannot trace a fusebox other that those for the van.
The fuses in the charger unit are all ok and I have switched on the switch on the panel and the one under the sink so it is not that.

Has anyone any suggestions where the fuse might be or an alternative cause for the problem?

Thanks,

Jim

Hi i think looking at the 12v wiring diagram that there should be 2 fuses in the engine bay a 20 amp fuse and a 30 amp fuse, This might help!

hi. our van has a fuse connecter with 2 fuses in a small connecter close to the battery directly in the battery cables.one of these blew on our van and result no 12 volt power and battery would not charge whilst driving.

The symptoms do suggest that the fuse located adjacent to the leisure battery is blown. I never had cause to look for it in our '99 Duetto but it is part of the Ford installation and should be with the relays near the leisure battery under the bonnet and is most likely 20A.

Halfords blew ours when they changed the leisure battery but I wasn't there to see where it was. I'm sure one of our many Duetto owners will provide the exact location soon.

Peter

I also have a 1998 Duetto. The fuse from the Leisure battery to the interior is in a plastic box with lid next to the vehicle battery on the drivers side under the bonnet. Also there is the relay which unoperated ( engine off ) feeds the control panel in the back. Operated ( engine running ) it feeds the fridge and switches the control panel off

Good luck

Pete

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will have another look at it in the next week and let you know what I find.

I found a fuse box immediately above the vehicle battery with a single 20amp fuse in it marked "Caravan Fridge 12v/20a" and replaced this but with no effect.
In fact when I removed the fuse completely it made no difference to what is happening i.e. the 12v system only work when pluggged into the mains.

There is another fusebox alongside the vehicle battery that is imposible to open fully as it is below the brake pipes but I can see it has a single 5amp fuse in it so not sure what that is for.

Any suggestions before I have to take it to a specialist?

Thanks,

Jim

Hi Jim

The fuse you found is the one that supplies the fridge with 12v from the engine battery when the engine is running.  If I remember rightly there should be another battery at the other side of the engine compartment that is the leisure battery.  There should be a lead of circa 3mm dia connected to the +ve terminal of the leisure battery and the 20A fuse you are looking for should be in that lead within a few inches of the battery terminal.

Any chance of a couple of photographs of your under bonnet battery installation to look for clues?

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your interest.
I have had another look but that is the only fuse I can find.

I am not sure how I get picture on here and have read another post about putting them onto Photobucket which I have done but dont understand how to then get them to here.
I am pasting the link and hope that is right!
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This one shows an overview of the engine bay with the leisure battery on the right and the red lead clipped to the top of the bulkhead. I have folled this lead all the way across and can't find and in-line fuse or any other connection until it gets to what I assume is a relay box on the left hand side.
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This shows the vehicle battery with the relay above it and the fusebox to the side. The red wire from the leisure battery is the top one of 3 connected to the left hand connection.
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This close up shows the 3 wires to the relay, the top one from the leisure battery, the middle one to the fusebox and the bottom one into the vehicle. The single wire from the right hand side of the relay goes to the vehicle battery.
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This close up of the fusebox shows the single fuse labelled as before and another relay box-type thing too.

If you can offer any help or suggestions I would be most grateful.

Thanks, Jim

Hi Jim

There is no obvious sign of a fuse near the leisure battery and the lead from the positive terminal seems to cross the bulkhead in a black sleeve towards the vehicle battery.  Can you trace that wire?  It may end up in the fuse box where the fridge fuse is and there may just be a fuse missing?

If you have a meter to read the voltage across the leisure battery, it should increase to 13.5-14.5v (ish) if on hook up and the charger switched on or if the engine is started.

Peter

jimorian wrote:
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This shows the vehicle battery with the relay above it and the fusebox to the side. The red wire from the leisure battery is the top one of 3 connected to the left hand connection.
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This close up shows the 3 wires to the relay, the top one from the leisure battery, the middle one to the fusebox and the bottom one into the vehicle. The single wire from the right hand side of the relay goes to the vehicle battery.

The relay above the battery looks to be the split-charge relay, which (effectively) connects leisure and vehicle battery together when the alternator is running. If the leisure battery is showing good voltage then that relay appears to be working Ok.

On my van of about the same era, the fuse for the 12V habitation electrics was not in any of the fuse boxes - it was an inline fuse which was not easy to see, as it sat just to the right of the vehicle battery, just below the top of the battery itself. Unfortunately, A-S varied their wiring a lot over the years, so there really is no simple "right or wrong" answer on the location of fuses and relays...

Hi Peter/Mojo,

I have carefully traced the cables again and confirm that the positive from the leisure battery goes straight to the relay switch with no fuse or other interruption and from there one wire goes to the fusebox, 1 to the alternator and 1 to the vehicle battery.
The voltage across the leisure battery reads 12.5 volts and stays the same with or without the engine running or the mains plugged in.
I found a 30 amp inline fuse
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but changing that or in fact removing it completely made no difference.
There was also a 5 amp fuse in a box
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but again changing it had no effect.
There is another box alongside the battery which has what looks like fuses in it:
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Are these fuses and if so, how do I remove them and replace them?
The first fuse box I looked at:
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has 6 fuse carriers wired in but only the one fuse installed - is this right? I don't know how any of them would have been removed without my knowledge.

Thanks for continuing to take an interest.

Jim


Jim

Jim,

It's no surprise that 5 of the 6 fuses are unused - that box is provided by Ford for optional equipment such as cab heaters, extra internal lighting, etc.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the 4 large fuses/fusible links to the left of the battery, but they don't look like anything A-S would have added.

I can only go from memory, as I no longer have a circuit diagram to hand, but IIRC the 30A inline fuse serves both the fridge and the habitation electrics. In my van, each of those had their own 20A fuse after the 30A one. It would be interesting to put a meter on the 30A fuse and see if it has battery voltage present on it.

I also vaguely recall that in some vans the habitation electrics inline fuse was at the other end of the wire going to the power control unit, so at the back of the van rather than in the engine bay.

Just an idea does the fridge work on 12v with engine running? If it does try it with engine off. If that also works your relay is stuck in the operated position

Pete

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Although the principle is the same, the actual circuitry kept changing.  This circuit diagram is from a coach built of that era but  I expect the use of relays and fusing to be very similar.

Peter

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This diagram is taken from the handbook of a T reg Ford Ravenna and is probably much nearer the actual circuitry on your Duetto.  The relay labelled Change Over and the adjacent 30A fuse would be the most likely culprits in your case.  The Fridge fuse is shown as 15A but 20A are now used.

Peter

Thanks for all the help but I had to give in and get a mobile caravan repair guy in who found that it was actually a dodgy connection in the fuse box.
He traced the wiring and couldn't find another fuse either so it wasn't just me being stupid.
I was at work but apparently it only took him 45 minutes and he charged £45 (against the £65 call out and £50/hour I was quoted elsewhere).

The guy was Alan Cook of Hitchpoint Mobile Servicing from Sudbury Suffolk.

I really appreciate all the advice and the time taken by you all.

Looking forward to a summer's touring now (if summer ever arrives that is!)

Many thanks,

Jim:smile!:

Hi Jim

Thanks for the feedback - its really nice to hear what the problem eventually was.

You will see from the last diagram I posted (above) that in earlier days there was not a fuse at the battery terminal (as you found).  That makes the installation susceptible to overheating and subsequent fire as a result of a fault in the wiring or relay before the fuse.

I would seriously consider having a fuse installed adjacent to the leisure battery +ve terminal.

Peter

Thanks for the advice - I will get that done.