Charging leisure and vehicle batteries on EHU

I have been given conflicting advice! The AA breakdown man (very competent) said the vehicle battery(1 month old) was damaged. The Dealer said it was Ok and found the Leisure battery was hot and distorted. 
I now have had both replaced. Can I leave the Van on permanent EHU in the garden, happy in the knowledge that the Control panel will switch from one to the other as required without damaging either?
Advice gratefully accepted.

Unfortunately it's difficult to be certain about what power control system you have, and the answer is dependent on that. At some point between 2014 and 2018, A/S changed from using the Sargent EC155 to the EC500, The former does not have "smart charging", and the latter does.

My own personal experience of the more recent Sargent power supply/chargers is that you can leave the EHU permanently connected up and it will do no harm to the battery/batteries, but some people are more cautious and set up (for example) a simple 7-day timer so that the EHU is only on - and the charger powered up - for maybe one day a week. That should be enough to keep the battery topped up, typically.

Many thanks Roopert. Fortunately we have an EC500 and will leave the EHU connected. We will however try to monitor the batteries status (?stati)

One further point: it is possible to configure the EC500 such that Smart Charging is disabled. If you have owned the van from new then it is fair to assume that it is enabled - that is the default setting. If you have not, you cannot assume that a previous owner has not had it disabled (for whatever reason) - though it is unlikely IMO that they would have done.

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In the settings in the controller you will get setting as my picture for smart mode for your charging

Why do people feel that they need to leave the van connected while at home. You never would with a car so why do it with your van ?

Bigplumbs wrote:Why do people feel that they need to leave the van connected while at home. You never would with a car so why do it with your van ?

This has been explained lots of times already and if you keep letting you batteries drain will shorten the life

Bigplumbs wrote:Why do people feel that they need to leave the van connected while at home. You never would with a car so why do it with your van ?

You’ve obviously never had a car with so many electronic gizmos fitted that the battery would flatten in 2 weeks if not used!

I plug the van in for the same reason - to make sure the engine starts when needed.

Bigplumbs wrote:Why do people feel that they need to leave the van connected while at home. You never would with a car so why do it with your van ?

Actually we do so often with any of our cars which is left unattended and not likely to be used for some time, as otherwise the alarm system, tracker etc is likely to drain the battery, just as it does with the van. I have CTEK smart charger plugs connected to the batteries of them all, so it's an easy job. As we split our time between Fife and Berkshire, often leaving a vehicle on the drive at one or other location for several weeks at a time it is necessary, as it is when we travel in the van for lengthy trips leaving the cars behind.

Bigplumbs wrote:Why do people feel that they need to leave the van connected while at home. You never would with a car so why do it with your van ?

On a modern vehicle, be it a car or motorhome, the vehicle electrics which may include an alarm are constantly draining the vehicle battery even when the vehicle is not being used.  Self-discharge will also reduce the battery's State Of Charge (SOC).  If the vehicle is not used regularly there is then a risk that the vehicle battery will go flat if it is not given a mains or solar charge.  If neither charge is available and the vehicle is out of use for long periods, its best to disconnect the vehicle battery which disables the vehicle electrics and the alarm if fitted.

A motorhome's leisure battery has a similar problem.  If the habitation electrics and power control system are not switched off, they can quickly flatten the battery if it it is not given a mains or solar charge.  Long regular drives will help to maintain the battery's SOC but the leisure battery charge from the alternator is often not that efficient just as it isn't on a caravan.

Bigplumbs wrote:Why do people feel that they need to leave the van connected while at home. You never would with a car so why do it with your van ?

I drive the car every day.
My motorbike is permanently connected to a battery charger all winter.  If I didn't, I would need to buy a new battery every spring.

Once again the curse of modern equipment draining batteries. No wonder the planet has so many issues associated with energy use

Bigplumbs wrote:Once again the curse of modern equipment draining batteries. No wonder the planet has so many issues associated with energy use

It's not really a curse. Modern equipment has become more functional, and it's inevitable that it takes more power. But in parallel with that, manufacturers have been steadily cutting power consumption, so it balances out to an extent.

A great example is the mobile phone - my current cheapo Motorola has a battery that lasts about as long as the ones in my Nokia of 20 years ago, but it has GPS, motion sensing, mobile data, a camera and a whole load of other functions added. And although it's popular to assert that all of these extra features are unwanted, many people do actually use the camera, mobile broadband and the GPS features in their phones.

My recollection of the electrical systems in motorhomes of 25 or more years ago is that they were generally pretty crude, and the same is true of engine management. Our Transit based conversion used to struggle to get above 20MPG overall, while my current (8 year old) van will achieve double that. That improvement in completely dependent on the computing power of modern ECUs, and that inevitably takes more battery power.

Without wishing to start another yet solar discussion... I'll just mention that even the standard 80W panel and Sargent controller they fit nowadays are quite capable of keeping both batteries topped up from beginning of March until maybe mid November. But for the depths of winter, EHU is one answer, and it shouldn't do any harm leaving it connected.

I found to my cost that the Sargent control unit on our new 2020/21 Van drains the batteries completely. We were away by silver bird in the sky to Spain for a fortnight in feb. The van was covered so no PV at all and I thought I had switched everything off. Fridge, WiFi lights etc. Nope - didn't know about the big black switch on the control unit under the bunk. Bloomin dealer should have told me. Batteries seem ok but I know that they don't like full discharge/recharge. Particularly the vehicle battery.

With my MH being in storage over winter and no EHU on site or roof-mounted panel, I purchased a 4.8W solar battery trickle charger. Since it was last used in November, I have brought the MH home each month to hook it up to the mains but in between the little solar panel has kept the vehicle battery topped up nicely, even during the darkest days of winter. I have not had a single instance of the battery struggling to turn the engine over. It will never charge a depleted battery but for keeping it in shape, at £29.00, it was a cost-effective solution.

Victor Johnstone wrote:I found to my cost that the Sargent control unit on our new 2020/21 Van drains the batteries completely. We were away by silver bird in the sky to Spain for a fortnight in feb. The van was covered so no PV at all and I thought I had switched everything off. Fridge, WiFi lights etc. Nope - didn't know about the big black switch on the control unit under the bunk. Bloomin dealer should have told me. Batteries seem ok but I know that they don't like full discharge/recharge. Particularly the vehicle battery.

My 'blooming dealer' told me to leave the 'big black switch on the control unit under the bunk' well alone and that the solar panel would keep everything charged.  Even Sargent in their most recent e-mail titled 'AS Monitor - Security Recommendations' said:

'If your motorhome is parked outside and has a solar panel fitted, it is recommended to keep the leisure battery connected, to have the power supply unit (PSU) turned on, and to turn off the control panel over the door.  The solar panel should provide enough energy to keep the leisure and vehicle batteries charged, and the tracking / communication unit will monitor the batteries and let you know if they need charging (if you have enabled email and SMS alerts or have a tracking to determine if it needs charging). 
If the motorhome is parked undercover in a building or carport or has a storage cover fitted that blocks the solar panel or the vehicle doesn’t have a solar panel installed, then it is recommended to turn the PSU off and leave the leisure battery fitted and connected. ...' 

It's hardly surprising that when such bad advice is given that owners end up with flat batteries!  My advice is turn it off if the van isn't being used.

We live and learn.

Caraman wrote:
'It's hardly surprising that when such bad advice is given that owners end up with flat batteries!  My advice is turn it off if the van isn't being used.

Also it doesn't help when we talk about switching off when we mean shutdown.  Turning the power off is not enough.  Thanks Sargent.

Had this from Sargent today.

The Ec155 does have a fixed voltage charger which constantly output 13.8V so ideally is to switch the charger off when the battery is fully charged but for your peace of mind I suggest to contact the battery manufacturer to find out if they are happy with a floating voltage of 13.8 for extended periods. I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
 
Technical Support Team

Is it normal for the Leisure Battery to get hot while in use? Not too hot to touch but certainly hot enough to warm the metal bed frame of my Warwick XL.

Geoff Pollard wrote:Is it normal for the Leisure Battery to get hot while in use? Not too hot to touch but certainly hot enough to warm the metal bed frame of my Warwick XL.

I've never noticed any of my batteries getting hot.  If its getting hot when fully charged and connected to an EHU with the charger on, I would say there is definitely something wrong.