Batteries drained

We headed off for 3 weeks in sunny Spain by Squeezyjet. Since we were away we put the cover over the Van (2020 Warwick Duo) so no solar charge.  Turned everything off. Got a Sargent warning 1 week in. Home yesterday to fully flat vehicle and leisure batteries. Do any of you bright folks have any tips for what could be draining? Thanks.

Lots of battery techie guys on here Victor,hope you had a nice holiday.
Boaby

When you say “turned everything off” can you expand a bit on that?

Dbvwt wrote:When you say “turned everything off” can you expand a bit on that?

thanks for the reply. I made sure the fridge, vehicle and domestic lights, sat tv were off. is there something i missed?

burlingtonboaby wrote:Lots of battery techie guys on here Victor,hope you had a nice holiday.
Boaby

been a great forum for us newbies!

yes nice n warm! unlike here but we are driving down Glasgow/portsmouth/santander at the end of march so a bit worried about the battery issue. Bought the van new, love it but a few wee niggles.

thanks

Victor Johnstone wrote:

Dbvwt wrote:When you say “turned everything off” can you expand a bit on that?

thanks for the reply. I made sure the fridge, vehicle and domestic lights, sat tv were off. is there something i missed?

The EC700 main power switch? And possibly the vehicle battery isolation switch but I’ve not much experience of that.

If possible it may have been best to leave the van plugged into the EHU even if just on a timer.

I would have turned the Sargent off! Our EC500 is the main drain even with solar pumping in power it cannot keep up with the drain in winter. Now bypassed and when parked on drive turned off.
Never had any battery problems since the mod or found the need for EHU.
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Richard

Victor Johnstone wrote:

burlingtonboaby wrote:Lots of battery techie guys on here Victor,hope you had a nice holiday.
Boaby

been a great forum for us newbies!

yes nice n warm! unlike here but we are driving down Glasgow/portsmouth/santander at the end of march so a bit worried about the battery issue. Bought the van new, love it but a few wee niggles.

thanks

Should be well charged after that drive and the sunny South Coast. Hope the wind drops by then in the bay!
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Richard

Dbvwt wrote:

Victor Johnstone wrote:

Dbvwt wrote:When you say “turned everything off” can you expand a bit on that?

thanks for the reply. I made sure the fridge, vehicle and domestic lights, sat tv were off. is there something i missed?

The EC700 main power switch? And possibly the vehicle battery isolation switch but I’ve not much experience of that.

If possible it may have been best to leave the van plugged into the EHU even if just on a timer.

thanks. yes the EHU is no problem at home (the van is in our driveway) but its more if we cant hook up while on the road. because i thought everything was off i didnt bother hooking it up plus I dont have a timer.It seemed to drain quite quickly!

rgermain wrote:I would have turned the Sargent off! Our EC500 is the main drain even with solar pumping in power it cannot keep up with the drain in winter. Now bypassed and when parked on drive turned off.
Never had any battery problems since the mod or found the need for EHU.
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Richard

thanks richard - I did wonder that. how do I turn Sargent off?

can it really drain both batteries completely in such a short time?

Victor Johnstone wrote:

rgermain wrote:...

.... how do I turn Sargent off?

can it really drain both batteries completely in such a short time?

A black button switch in the corner of the EC700.  When it's in its on.  When is out its off.  If left on with no charge going to the batteries it will quickly flatten the leisure battery and then the vehicle battery which is also trying to power the vehicle electrics in the background.  This should have been explained on handover.

Caraman wrote:

Victor Johnstone wrote:

rgermain wrote:...

.... how do I turn Sargent off?

can it really drain both batteries completely in such a short time?

A black button switch in the corner of the EC700.  When it's in its on.  When is out its off.  If left on with no charge going to the batteries it will quickly flatten the leisure battery and then the vehicle battery which is also trying to power the vehicle electrics in the background.  This should have been explained on handover.

thanks,

it certainly wasn't explained at handover and actually I have previously returned the vehicle and mentioned it to the dealer for a few snags. The batteries had not fully discharged but I got the messages a few times while touring last year. they checked and said nowt wrong.

do you reckon the solar panel is enough for it?

if not, its really not worth having unless hooked up.

Victor Johnstone wrote:

Caraman wrote:

Victor Johnstone wrote:
.... 

.......

....
do you reckon the solar panel is enough for it?

if not, its really not worth having unless hooked up.

The 80w solar panel will only work if there is enough light for it which is in short supply in the winter months.  That said, when the EC700 is switched off, all the solar charge goes to the vehicle battery which in my experience is enough to keep it charged during the Winter if it is fully charged to start with.  No solar charge will go to the leisure battery but it should be fine without charge for a good 3 months if it is also fully charged to start with.  It shouldn't be necessary to connect to an EHU during a 3 month out of use period if the EC700 is switched off.

Thanks all. Really helpful. When I said not really worth having (paying annual subs for) I of course meant the tracking system rather than the PV panel.

This has been historically a recurrent subject.
I have made my point several times, but here goes once again.

80w (min) and 100w (ideally) is more than capable of keeping both batteries full all yr round. Now had 5 motorhomes, 4 with 100w, this one with 160 (but only that size as panel was 1/2 price and the truck had room for it.)

All have had a Photonic Universe dual battery PWM controller with the optional remote display which is very useful.

All have had the outputs from the controller wired directly to each battery with an inline 10A fuse at the battery +ve terminal.

NONE, and I repeat that NONE have been in any way connected through any form of Sargent system, all direct to batteries.

All 10 of my batteries, over the years have been kept in perfect health by being permanently 100% charged, I have never changed either a LB or VB.

We rarely use sites and when we do, only have EHU if included in the site fee. Admittedly we don't nightstop much in winter, nothing to do with batteries more to do with ambient temperature!. The rest of the time, whatever battery capacity we have used of an evening is replaced by circa 11 am next day +/- ambient light conditions.

If I had only done this once I too would be skeptical, but over now 9 years and 5 trucks my experience is exactly as above.

Interesting Ian and thanks. I don't think that I have your tech skills tho.

Any basic electrician wouldnt struggle!!!!
Everything already in place, just need controller, 2 x inline fuses and some wire!

Any basic electrician wouldnt struggle!!!!
Everything already in place, just need controller, 2 x inline fuses and some wire!

IanH wrote:Any basic electrician wouldnt struggle!!!!
Everything already in place, just need controller, 2 x inline fuses and some wire!

lol

ok I will have a look and thanks again.

my issue though is that my PV panel output is apparently less than the Sargent demand.

That is the problem Victor for those of us with a Sargent EC700 or the earlier EC500 which I have.
Many of us have done the modification that Ian describes above and it vastly improves the so called ‘Sargent smart charging’ that comes with our panels being connected direct to the Sargent.
Personally, with the usual few hours of TV, charging of phones, lights etc.. my leisure battery is now generally fully charged again each day but only between the months of say April-October. This wasn’t the case before the mod.
I have done tests and even after the mod, a single 80w panel isn’t enough over winter and I have to switch off my EC500 to maintain the batteries.
I do recommend doing the mod though, nobody on here has regretted it as far as I know.

I've also done the mod but not to keep the batteries charged when out of use.  As explained previously, simply switching off the EC700 will normally do this.  I suspect my pre-mod Sargent system kept the vehicle battery at a slightly higher state of charge than my current Votronic MPPT controller which trickle charges the vehicle battery at a lower voltage than the Sargent controller.  The mod will really come into its own charging the leisure battery when using the van off-grid Apr-Oct as described by Dbvwt with the EC700 switched on.

It's all very dismal. It's bad enough to design an electrical system that can trash the batteries so readily, but even worse not to inform a new owner about simple steps to maintain them.

I wonder how many people who've shelled out £70K+ this week at the NEC for a shiny new AS, doubtless wooed by the sleek 'tablet' style control panel for controlling all habitation systems at the swipe of a finger, will discover the hard way that their batteries drain next winter unless they take careful steps to preserve the state of charge.

During the long wait to take delivery of their purchase they'll hopefully get to this forum and do some homework before next winter, but I doubt it.  

Tim

well at least chatting to you guys has helped enormously in identifying the problem. thanks yet again and I will speak to a spark re the mod.

Dbvwt wrote:That is the problem Victor for those of us with a Sargent EC700 or the earlier EC500 which I have.
Many of us have done the modification that Ian describes above and it vastly improves the so called ‘Sargent smart charging’ that comes with our panels being connected direct to the Sargent.
Personally, with the usual few hours of TV, charging of phones, lights etc.. my leisure battery is now generally fully charged again each day but only between the months of say April-October. This wasn’t the case before the mod.
I have done tests and even after the mod, a single 80w panel isn’t enough over winter and I have to switch off my EC500 to maintain the batteries.
I do recommend doing the mod though, nobody on here has regretted it as far as I know.

Living in sunny South, sometimes, both my batteries are kept fully charged all year round, by a 120w solar alone and even when just standing around and not any charge from alternator. 
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Richard

Indeed Richard, I’m not quite as far south as you and park against a north facing wall in the winter months but I think the second 80w panel I’m about to fit (160w in total) will be more than adequate all year round.
As mentioned by K-b though, how blooming dismal! It’s not rocket science for A/S to fit something that just works without all the fancy bells and whistles.