covid waste

Just announced £37 billion wasted on test and trace.Consultants on £1000 a day many doing nothing.
More stories on NHS waste to come for sure.

Micky

The phrase, can't organise a pi** up in a brewery comes to my mind, though I'm not sure any political party would have done much better than the current lot.

From what I saw, this Government outsourced much to the private sector. In the early days existing laboratories offered their services with covid testing. It fell on deaf ears, Serco, Capita or any upstart rag and bone man who claimed to be able to help was showered with our money. I'll have to admit though that our reliance on the overseas global supply chain to provide PPE safety equipment didn't help. With very limiting UK manufacturing capacity of PPE, and us in competition with other countries, some rag and bone men have probably got very rich. Some PPE that was supplied wasn't fit for its purpose, surprise surprise.

The scientists and medics have also failed us too. Much of what I write below comes from my following of John Campbell and Tim Spector on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/ZOE-health/videos

Jenny Harries on masks, we didn't need to wear them, no if you wore one it was only to stop you passing it on to infect others, then it became we should all wear masks. Strange that they initially thought masks would only be a one way barrier, just protecting others.

The idea that a person could be infectious before symptoms appear took rather a long time to be appreciated, and hence the consequences of asymptomatic spread to be appreciated and sink in too.

Vitamin D supplementation is to prevent rickets, As we don't believe that low vitamin D levels can be linked to a person having a compromised immune system, we won't measure routinely in the UK vitamin D levels particularly in dark skinned Afro-Americans-Caribbeans who have gone down with covid. Strangely this group has died in above average numbers. Deprivation see, not lack of vitamin D, but how do they know when they aren't measuring it. (Incidentally my wife and I take 4000 units of vitamin D per day)

Currently there is a difference between what the Government/NHS claims are the symptoms of the Delta variant in those who are already vaccinated. The Government /NHS are still sticking with the same group of symptoms whilst the Zoe APP for many months has had many people report that their symptoms were more like them having a common cold.

Covid vaccination procedure, should a health professional aspirate before administering you your intramuscular injection to ensure that it isn't been given intravenously. Not necessary they say, the vaccine does not go into a vein. How would they know if they never aspirate? If you do get a sudden taste in your mouth within a minute of your vaccination it will probably have gone into a vein. These fat encapsulated vaccine nanoparticles could find their way to your heart, bad news.

I think the medical advisors have been very reluctant to change their views when the evidence shows otherwise. They all sing from the same hymn sheet, aka Group Think. So not many will hold their hands up and say, "you know folks we got that wrong".

In the next few days I will have my booster 3rd vaccination, no thanks to the website or me phoning 119. Despite having had my 2nd vaccination over 6 months ago and being in the shielding group I'm not recognised on their system, neither my NHS hospital number or my address, so the website reported that I wasn't eligible for a booster shot, the 119 person on the phone no help. It's the pi** up in a brewery situation again. Finally a phone call to our GP and it's been arranged.

Update on wasted £37 Billion.

£5-9billion fees.ie 2,239 persons x £1100 per day for 1 year.
£7billion for 600 contracts with more than 200 organisations.
£372m  on agency & contractor staff,
£52 m on permanent and seconded staff.
£31 m for lab capacity.
=£16.4 billion.
What happened to the other £20 billion or so?
This needs a proper investigation.

Micky

On Radio 4 today a consumer rights person tested a travel approved lateral flow test from firms at both ends of the price spectrum. Cheapest £20, most expensive £50.
Both came special delivery next day, both were identical products, made in China of course.
Al.

And how could the basis for reporting daily infections possibly be any less accurate . . . or credible!!

"People who have died for any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test"


How many thousands have died from totally unrelated reasons, like walking under a bus or falling off a ladder??

Trivial examples I know, but such instances (and there must be an awful lot, and a huge variety of them) make the reporting system laughable!!

My cousin's aunt died earlier this year. She'd tested positive for Covid about 3 weeks previously, but she only had mild symptoms and Covid was not connected with her cause of death, she was 97 years old..
Al.

Gromit wrote:And how could the basis for reporting daily infections possibly be any less accurate . . . or credible!!

"People who have died for any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test"

... make the reporting system laughable!!

No, it doesn't make it laughable.

Because you shouldn't be looking at individual days of data, you should be looking at the trend. And as long as you collect consistent data, then the trend will be accurate.

Weegie wrote:

Gromit wrote:And how could the basis for reporting daily infections possibly be any less accurate . . . or credible!!

"People who have died for any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test"

... make the reporting system laughable!!

No, it doesn't make it laughable.

Because you shouldn't be looking at individual days of data, you should be looking at the trend. And as long as you collect consistent data, then the trend will be accurate.

So why do the media and the scientists pay so much attention to the daily or weekly stats? 

Agreed about the principle of the trend, but what does it actually tell us about the numbers who have died from, rather than with Covid?

That's my point, which I probably should have made clearer. Dying from, is very different to dying with, as Al just illustrated.

I've got my booster today. I've had 5 text messages over the last 2 weeks from our health board reminding me including one this morning.

also lost or mislaid covid jab details so had to wait 16 weeks for second jab!!

Micky

Still getting messages about flue jab to have !!Had it weeks ago!!

Micky

And more press sensationalism! I have no doubt that in an unprecedented situation millions have been wasted, The whole world was trying to buy PPE, we had very little so I am sure we bought wherever we could at whatever price it was offered. We had no idea how much we needed so in some cases we probably bought too little and in others bought too much. If it was perishable some would have gone off. Some would have been fine when it arrived and some may have been sub standard, I don't suppose we had time to get samples, test them and inspect every box for quality before it was delivered as the situation was so desperate.

Couldn't organise a ..... up etc is rather unfair, could anyone of us done better, I know I couldn't?

That said having run a large multinational company in the private sector I despair at what I see in the public sector in general. Far to few people at the coal face and far to many middle managers fighting harder to save their jobs than concentrating on getting the job done as efficiently as possible. It is not the fault of any one political party, it is the fault of the system and the way things have evolved over many years. I could give dozens of real world examples where had any commercial business been run that way it would have been bust in a week. Throwing money at things is not the answer, lean and mean is the way to go.

I don't know what the answer is, it is almost press the restart button and begin again if you want 100% efficiency because in very few parts of the public sector from Parliament downwards are we getting it now and no political party or leader is going to change that.

Our son is a partner in a chartered accountancy company, and the tales he tells me of waste in the public sector that he's come across makes my jaw drop..
He says the unaccountability regarding funds in these public funded departments, especially education and health, would land a private company trying the same accountancy tricks in court... But having access to a seemingly bottomless pit of money bails them out every time.
Al.

We cannot get our booster jab, full up at surgery no walk in centres here, can get one if we travel a 50 plus round trip. had second jab 7 months ago, getting concerned now.

mikethebike wrote:Update on wasted £37 Billion.

£5-9billion fees.ie 2,239 persons x £1100 per day for 1 year.
£7billion for 600 contracts with more than 200 organisations.
£372m  on agency & contractor staff,
£52 m on permanent and seconded staff.
£31 m for lab capacity.
=£16.4 billion.
What happened to the other £20 billion or so?
This needs a proper investigation.

Micky

This is not millions but billions. Not masks purchase either.
Micky

bikeralw wrote:Our son is a partner in a chartered accountancy company, and the tales he tells me of waste in the public sector that he's come across makes my jaw drop..
He says the unaccountability regarding funds in these public funded departments, especially education and health, would land a private company trying the same accountancy tricks in court... But having access to a seemingly bottomless pit of money bails them out every time.
Al.

In a long career in healthcare I have been a manager in private sector. Self employed, and a senior manager in health service. Both in private sector and as self employed we ultimately produced accounts that showed profit/loss at year end to provide a measure of our performance during the year. As an NHS manager we had several types of targets to meet, waiting times, public and partner engagement etc, the financial outcome was always measure as over/underspend not profit/loss 

I was accountable for a £20m + annual prescribing bill for a health economy, my  view was we had to ensure the most cost effective use of this but as a professionals adviser and manager I did not write the prescriptions, latterly we were regularly overspent annually. My arguement was the prescribers ie doctors, were responding to what was presented to them, the needs of their patients, and an overspend where we had tried to elimnate unnecessary waste etc was an indication that the provided budget was inadequate for the needs of the population. This being driven by complex factors such as disease prevelance, deprivation, state of housing stock, employment levels etc and perversely how effective health services were locally. If you are better at screening patients for diseases such as hypertension and diabetes, if you make professionals accessible to patients etc you will detect more disease than neighbouring health systems with poorer access who appear to manage their resources better but in effect are treating less patients that has consequences downstream with more heart attacks etc. This period of my career was very complex and interesting helped by both a Master's degree in prescribing science, and postgraduate health economics qualifications.

In short I was happy to defend overspend on this budget as I couldndemonstrate better health outcomes for our population that other areas of Scotland where less spending in medicines also seemed to be link to worse patient outcomes?

The other part of my job was as direct line manager for 100 staff, in 15 years I never overspent my staffing budget through careful management of skill mix, timing of replacements and minimal use of locums and agency staff always challenging and risk was if you came in under budget you could end up with less resource following year so always had to fight to maintain budget.

Could rant on about this all day, I do see waste in pub LIC sector, but also saw a lot of dedicated people doing their best in spite of the system. None of us went to work intending to waste taxpayer money, after all we are all tax payers too.

Nurse, can I have my medicines to calm me down now please

Great post Bilbo! Interesting to hear from someone with your experience from the other perspective.

I have no direct experience with the NHS or how it buys and uses its resources, I also take "stories" as just that. I have no doubt there are many that work there butts off to give a brilliant service, care deeply and are demoralised when they see stories that negate their efforts or criticise them. There does though seem to be a lack of joined up thinking which I fail to understand.

In Canada if you visit your physician and need hospitalisation or further treatment then he or she follows your case until your recovery and any aftercare. They will visit you in hospital, you are not handed on to a different department or sector and the system seems to work well. It doesn't seem to be that way here, but, I stand to be corrected! The huge differences of course is the service is insurance based, certainly in BC there is far less pressure because of the lower population but I would have to say the "end product" in terms of welfare seems to be better. In terms of treatment I have no idea!!

Three years ago, before covid, my Aunt living in West Sussex passed away and we had to clear her bungalow. She had been having home help and nursing visits for many years. We found hundreds of nursing packs in the cupboard containing plastic gloves, aprons and sealed dressings, all within date, all unopened, she also had a walking frame and a second frame with a tray on it.

We rang the doctors and asked where we should return them and were told to take it all to the local recycling centre as they couldn't be returned. Surely this is madness and a prime example of waste due to the system simply not being joined up.

Certainly not the case in Worcestershire (and I'm sure lots of other health authorities)

https://www.hacw.nhs.uk/news/nhs-service-urges-patients-to-return-equipment-3387

I rest my case Paul!
All the nursing packs went to the local animal rescue centre who were delighted and the frames to the red cross.

I returned zimmer frame, bath lift and other items to resource centre when my mother died. It annoys me when I see crutches put out with the rubbish for the bin men to collect.

Sadly, it varies a lot. I tried to return a walking frame in West Sussex after an elderly parent died - no, it has to go to the tip (metals recycling, but still not as good as re-use). The reason being (apparently) that they don't have the staff to check that the items are clean and safe to be re-used.

It was a similar story with medicines - for example, a complete unopened box of ten pre-filled syringes in sealed packages, which could not be returned, even though the expiry date was a year away. I could not return them to a pharmacy for disposal because, although they had never been used or the outer box even opened, they were considered to be "biohazard waste", requiring specialist disposal!

A similar story when my mother died a few years ago. I phoned the number on her various pieces of medical hardware equipment, and was quite surprised when a time and date was agreed when the van full of stuff could be picked up. 
All well and good, but it was a different story with the piled high unopened boxes of 'soft disposable' packages. They wouldn't have them back as their system had counted them out and wouldn't count them back. In her spare bedroom she had 100 boxes, each containing 100 items, all went to the tip still sealed up.
Al.

I’ve heard of similar cases to those here where the local hospice willingly accepted unused and unopened items when the NHS rejected their return.

when I was discharged after a heart bypass op, i was give three boxes of blood thinning syringes, I opened one box and used two of the pre filled jabs and then had a warfarin nurse come in for a six week course of warfarin and she said, not to use the jabs now for obvious reasons.

our chemist wouldn't take them and I had to put them all in a sharps bin to be picked up and destroyed, two of the boxes hadn't been opened.

When I was discharged, they knew I had an appointment two days latter at the warfarin clinic so in theory they need have given me say half a dozen at most, such a waste.
Pete

mikethebike wrote:Update on wasted £37 Billion.

£5-9billion fees.ie 2,239 persons x £1100 per day for 1 year.
£7billion for 600 contracts with more than 200 organisations.
£372m  on agency & contractor staff,
£52 m on permanent and seconded staff.
£31 m for lab capacity.
=£16.4 billion.
What happened to the other £20 billion or so?
This needs a proper investigation.

Micky

Still got 1,230 employed at end of Oct.
Still spending over £1 Million daily on private consultants.
Test and trace an absolute waste of money.
Micky