Power inverter connected feeding 230V sockets

We are considering installing a pure sinus inverter in our Warwick XL.

I was wondering if there is any "safe" way to connect it to the 230v sockets, of course when not connected to the mains.
Ideally would like to avoid pulling cables from the inverter to run the 230v appliances and just use the existing sockets.
Anybody has done such installation?

Thanks

Even 'good' inverters are inefficient, I think using one will give the batteries a bit of a hammering, the 'lectrickery' experts on here will soon tell you.

modelman wrote:Even 'good' inverters are inefficient, I think using one will give the batteries a bit of a hammering, the 'lectrickery' experts on here will soon tell you.

Thanks, for the sake of the discussion I would add that we have 1 x high performance lithium battery LiFeP04 110 12v 110 AH. Planning to add another one of the very same type

110ah lithium, lead-acid or gel is still 110ah & they will still get a hammering, & sure, of course it will work.
I use lithiums on several of my motorbikes, they're great ,but got to be careful charging them, can't use a 'normal' charger.

modelman wrote:110ah lithium, lead-acid or gel is still 110ah & they will still get a hammering, & sure, of course it will work.
I use lithiums on several of my motorbikes, they're great ,but got to be careful charging them, can't use a 'normal' charger.

The one we have right now is directly managed by the Sargent PX300 three-stage charger. And if I understand the schematics there is an available connection for a second one

gobsmacked wrote:
The one we have right now is directly managed by the Sargent PX300 three-stage charger. And if I understand the schematics there is an available connection for a second one

Perhaps there are several versions of the PX300, but as far as I'm aware, the "original" version of the PX300 is not specified as being compatible with LiFePO4 batteries.

Roopert wrote:

gobsmacked wrote:
The one we have right now is directly managed by the Sargent PX300 three-stage charger. And if I understand the schematics there is an available connection for a second one

Perhaps there are several versions of the PX300, but as far as I'm aware, the "original" version of the PX300 is not specified as being compatible with LiFePO4 batteries.

I spoke to Sergent today and as far as batteries they said it was fine. I could go up to 220 AH, so 2 x 110 AH was fine.

Anyway, the main issue her is connecting the 230v output of an inverter to the 230v wiring and reuse the sockets, if doable and how to do that

As I understand the situation, a standard lead/acid profile will function, but it may not be able to charge a LiFEPO4 battery fully, and it may under some circumstances reduce the working life of the battery. If I were spending that much on a battery, I'd want to use a charger that is specifically designed for that technology, but of course, that's up to you!

There are a number of ways of connecting up an inverter to existing sockets, depending on what functions you need and how much you are prepared to pay. At the simplest level it's possible to simply arrange a changeover relay, so that (for example) the loss of 240V causes the inverter to be switched into circuit for the mains socket(s), and causes it to drop out when mains is available again. Or you can buy inverter/chargers which integrate inverter, charger and power control into one unit (or several interconnected units). The Victron MultiPlus range has products that will do this - no doubt there are plenty of others.

The solution that you choose will also be guided by your own level of experience at 240V installations, and whether you intend to have the work done by an electrician. The simplest of approaches (a changeover relay) is something that is probably not recommended as a DIY project - simply because a small mistake could have serious consequences. However, an electrician may be unwilling to home-brew a solution, and may only be willing to install products that are designed and approved for the purpose.

As an additional factor, I have no idea what regulatory constraints apply to electrical installations in Denmark and Sweden which might affect what you are allowed to do (or have done) within a motorhome.

Roopert wrote:As I understand the situation, a standard lead/acid profile will function, but it may not be able to charge a LiFEPO4 battery fully, and it may under some circumstances reduce the working life of the battery. If I were spending that much on a battery, I'd want to use a charger that is specifically designed for that technology, but of course, that's up to you!

There are a number of ways of connecting up an inverter to existing sockets, depending on what functions you need and how much you are prepared to pay. At the simplest level it's possible to simply arrange a changeover relay, so that (for example) the loss of 240V causes the inverter to be switched into circuit for the mains socket(s), and causes it to drop out when mains is available again. Or you can buy inverter/chargers which integrate inverter, charger and power control into one unit (or several interconnected units). The Victron MultiPlus range has products that will do this - no doubt there are plenty of others.

The solution that you choose will also be guided by your own level of experience at 240V installations, and whether you intend to have the work done by an electrician. The simplest of approaches (a changeover relay) is something that is probably not recommended as a DIY project - simply because a small mistake could have serious consequences. However, an electrician may be unwilling to home-brew a solution, and may only be willing to install products that are designed and approved for the purpose.

As an additional factor, I have no idea what regulatory constraints apply to electrical installations in Denmark and Sweden which might affect what you are allowed to do (or have done) within a motorhome.

Thank you very much for the heads up regarding the battery. I have found the link to the PX300 charger documentation and I will verify the charge profile with the battery documentation,
Truth is that we just bought our used van and it came with the LiFEPO4 battery. But of course, before adding a second one we need to verify what you pointed out. Thanks for that.


I have looked at the Victron and it absolut looks interesting. I will present that as suggestion together with the changeover relay to the electrician that will eventually do the modification.
Absolutely no intention to mess with the EL installation on my own:-)


Thanks for the good advices.
Have a good day

having a large inverter as a 'built in' extra is a very popular option on larger, upmarket vans.....so this is something that is done regularly.
their large water tanks, multiple battery systems and inverters give owners much time away from ehu yet retain the ability to use most mains electrical devices....within reason!
even with a large lithium battery and a good inverter, using hairdriers or microwaves will pull the battery down, so replenishment  is vital, which will lead you fitting to a good solar bank.... 
some popular uses for the system you are consifpdering might include hairdriers, as above, and the charging of electric bike batteries...
where possible, remember is easier to use gas or 12v for devices that support this.
good luck, some good fun ahead when you become fully free of sites.

bolero boy wrote:having a large inverter as a 'built in' extra is a very popular option on larger, upmarket vans.....so this is something that is done regularly.
their large water tanks, multiple battery systems and inverters give owners much time away from ehu yet retain the ability to use most mains electrical devices....within reason!
even with a large lithium battery and a good inverter, using hairdriers or microwaves will pull the battery down, so replenishment  is vital, which will lead you fitting to a good solar bank.... 
some popular uses for the system you are consifpdering might include hairdriers, as above, and the charging of electric bike batteries...
where possible, remember is easier to use gas or 12v for devices that support this.
good luck, some good fun ahead when you become fully free of sites.

This is exactly what we are looking into, upgrading the solar panels, extra battery and inverter. Thanks!

gobsmacked wrote:We are considering installing a pure sinus inverter in our Warwick XL.

I was wondering if there is any "safe" way to connect it to the 230v sockets, of course when not connected to the mains.
Ideally would like to avoid pulling cables from the inverter to run the 230v appliances and just use the existing sockets.
Anybody has done such installation?

Thanks

Did you ever manage to get this sorted and an inverter fitted , looking at doing this myself now

We have 160w solar 130Ah Lead acid LB, dual battery solar controller and a 300w inverter.
Even with all that generating power we only dare use the inverter when driving to let the vehicle alternator do the work!
At 200w, just enough to charge the compressor battery and charge laptop, extremely rarely, that's best part of 10A going into this tiny inverter........

We rarely use sites and are energy independent thanks to the solar.....and gas.....!!

Ian I have 250w solar panel and 210ah battery bank ,I am adding another solar panel of 175w to increase my battery charging so thought an inverter wired in would enabl a quick blast with the microwave and boil a kettle

Well Chris you're not far away from a nuclear power station with that lot! I do know of your needs however.
Far from boiling the odd kettle, you could do mobile on site welding!
Hope all well with you both

FreelanderUK wrote:Ian I have 250w solar panel and 210ah battery bank ,I am adding another solar panel of 175w to increase my battery charging so thought an inverter wired in would enabl a quick blast with the microwave and boil a kettle

For this, I would put a commando connector on the output of the inverter and, when wanted, drop it out of the window and plug into hook up socket - no wiring or switching mads needed and perfectly safe.

IanH wrote:Well Chris you're not far away from a nuclear power station with that lot! I do know of your needs however.
Far from boiling the odd kettle, you could do mobile on site welding!
Hope all well with you both

Yes with the mobility scooter charging I could do with a bit more in the winter , we are both well and hope to be down your way again in the new year so hope to grab a coffee again with you , like wise hope you and the good lady are keeping well

FreelanderUK wrote:

gobsmacked wrote:We are considering installing a pure sinus inverter in our Warwick XL.

I was wondering if there is any "safe" way to connect it to the 230v sockets, of course when not connected to the mains.
Ideally would like to avoid pulling cables from the inverter to run the 230v appliances and just use the existing sockets.
Anybody has done such installation?

Thanks

Did you ever manage to get this sorted and an inverter fitted , looking at doing this myself now

Yes we did and it works perfectly. 

See this thread for details:
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Cheers