Kemerton water pump not working

by rob25 Mon 24 Aug 2020, 12:17 pm

Hi, After winterisation and lockdown, the water taps in my 2011 Autosleeper Kemerton are no longer working.
According to the manual, I have a Whale submersible pump with separate pressure switch. I have had a look at the switch and turned the adjustment knob fully up and fully down but the pump still does not kick in.
I have also removed the microswitch from the body of the switch along with its connectors and, when I manually press the switch down, I am getting 12.4V according to my multimeter.
Does this mean the pump itself is u/s? (I presumably won't be able to easily access this as it is submersed in the fresh water tank?).
(I did post a week or so ago but can't find this post now so presumably I need to save it somehow! - sorry I am new to this!)
Thanks in advance for any help.

by AutoSleepy_Don Mon 24 Aug 2020, 1:41 pm

One of the 12V fuses? I guess unlikely if you measure 12.4V
Fully clockwise on the pressure switch should ensure it comes on.

I am following this as it might come to dropping the tank and I would like to know how to do that.

You will get better replies than this hugegrins

by Gromit Mon 24 Aug 2020, 1:44 pm

This link might be useful.

Lots of members have changed to a Shurflo, and I can't recall any one of them regretting it for a second.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Dave

by rgermain Mon 24 Aug 2020, 4:08 pm

Gromit wrote:This link might be useful.

Lots of members have changed to a Shurflo, and I can't recall any one of them regretting it for a second.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Dave

Yes Yes did mine, no going back, although I did leave the sub pump in place up!

Turn on a tap and instant water, no priming to remove air, no driving around the area and last week used the shower 100% flow.
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Richard

by inspiredron Mon 24 Aug 2020, 5:16 pm

When my submersible failed I replaced with a Shurflo. Extra work was needed:
I had to buy an on/off valve to fit the shower head because the greater pressure from the Shurflo made it extremely difficult to regulate flow and temperature. I also needed to put pipe insulation over the pipes that are inside the swing wall to stop noise and chattering from the sink tap, particularly the cold at low flow rates. Some folk feel the you also need to fit an accumulator but I don't subscribe to that now I have padded the pipes in the swing wall.
Priming with the Shurflo is no quicker than before but, from other reports, I was lucky with pipe runs and never experienced air locks.

by AutoSleepy_Don Tue 25 Aug 2020, 12:56 pm

I assume you would like to try to get your current submersible pump working before looking at any replacement.

If you did need to replace the submersible then I have heard it said that, surprisingly (to me at least), it is easier to install an inspection hatch to the base of the water tank than to drop the tank itself. Your van may have one already as some do.

If you get really stuck then you can always phone the AS service centre and get advice over the phone.

by rob25 Tue 25 Aug 2020, 6:31 pm

Well at least I have the tv to watch now now I have replaced Fuse 7!! Thanks very much for the advice.
However, Fuse 4 blows now whenever I connect the pump (via the pressure switch) and switch on the water at the EC51 control panel.
This also stops the WC flush and the external water fill point working.
If I put in a good fuse and remove the connectors from the pressure switch, the WC flush and external filler do work (but obviously not the pump!).
So it appears I have a seized pump or dodgy pressure switch?
My multimeter does seem to show the switch is working. I was a bit worried I had reversed the connectors to the switch but again the multimeter seems to show the live from the battery is connected correctly, and I'm a bit nervous about having a go reversing the wires in case I do some (more?!) damage.
Perhaps a Shurflo is the way to go as suggested. Would that still work if the Whale pump was seized? According to the posts I have read, the Shurflo has to pull water through the Whale pump in the tank. Would it still be able to do that?
I'm not sure if my diy skills are up to a job like that!!
Thanks again. I am amazed that such good and friendly advice is available on this forum!

by AutoSleepy_Don Tue 25 Aug 2020, 6:51 pm

The pressure switch is simply an inline switch so I don't think you can connect the wires the wrong way round. I would bypass the pressure switch by using a fuse to connect the two wires together.
I would be on the lookout to see I hadn't somehow shorted the pump out.

Have you tried taking the pipe from the pump (as it feeds into the pressure switch) into your mouth and blow into it or suck from it? I think this would inform as to whether the pipe is blocked.

by rgermain Tue 25 Aug 2020, 8:16 pm

rob25 wrote:Well at least I have the tv to watch now now I have replaced Fuse 7!! Thanks very much for the advice.
However, Fuse 4 blows now whenever I connect the pump (via the pressure switch) and switch on the water at the EC51 control panel.
This also stops the WC flush and the external water fill point working.
If I put in a good fuse and remove the connectors from the pressure switch, the WC flush and external filler do work (but obviously not the pump!).
So it appears I have a seized pump or dodgy pressure switch?
My multimeter does seem to show the switch is working. I was a bit worried I had reversed the connectors to the switch but again the multimeter seems to show the live from the battery is connected correctly, and I'm a bit nervous about having a go reversing the wires in case I do some (more?!) damage.
Perhaps a Shurflo is the way to go as suggested. Would that still work if the Whale pump was seized? According to the posts I have read, the Shurflo has to pull water through the Whale pump in the tank. Would it still be able to do that?
I'm not sure if my diy skills are up to a job like that!!
Thanks again. I am amazed that such good and friendly advice is available on this forum!

That's the way I draw water with the Shurflo 20 psi pump, through the old sub pump, plenty of water. smile!

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Richard

by rob25 Sat 29 Aug 2020, 6:40 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I did remove the two electrical connectors from the pressure switch Don and connected them via a 10A fuse. It immediately blew the fuse, so definite pump problem then?
I took the water pipe off the inlet of the pressure switch but there's no way I can get my mouth in position to blow through it (I couldn't even have done it when I was much younger!) - I might have to get an extension pipe to make this possible.
I have made an appointment with our local dealer to sort out the problem but it's not until Sep. 25 as they're snowed under. it would be better if I could sort it first.
I'm just a bit wary of fitting a Shurflo - not sure where to fit it in a Kemerton, and would it work if the submersible was seized as water would still have to be drawn through it?

by FreelanderUK Sat 29 Aug 2020, 6:57 pm

Has anybody changed the pump on a WXL to a shurflo pump

by AutoSleepy_Don Sat 29 Aug 2020, 7:42 pm

Has anybody (on this forum) ever repaired a whale submersible pump?
I mean without replacing it with an inboard pump.

by MelB Sat 29 Aug 2020, 7:44 pm

Hi Rob. As you are aware there is plenty of advice on this forum with regards to identifying and solving problems with the Whale submersible pump. I assume you have also been in contact with Whale Customer Support Team. If not its worth a try:

Tel: 02891 270531 (weekdays) or 0845 217 2933 (weekends)
Email: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by AutoSleepy_Don Sat 29 Aug 2020, 8:23 pm

rob25 wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I did remove the two electrical connectors from the pressure switch Don and connected them via a 10A fuse. It immediately blew the fuse, so definite pump problem then?

Either the pump or the wiring.

I think you will be able to draw water through the pump even though it is not switched on. I have previously done so (obviously not on your van).

Earlier I suggested you call the AS service centre and again I really urge you to do so (01386 853511). up!

Given that you have decided to replace the whale submersible pump on a like for like basis then you can be speaking to someone who will have replaced a submersible pump on an AS PVC before. I am willing to be proven wrong but I don't think anyone on this forum has.
AS service centre will give phone advice.
I think it is a job where a ramp is a real bonus but few DIYers have access to one.

by rgermain Sat 29 Aug 2020, 9:01 pm

Not a real expert, but I would think if the pump is seized it would act the same as one that was disconnected, ie as in my case you can draw water through it.
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Richard

by Kemerton-bath Sat 29 Aug 2020, 10:50 pm

Rob,

We had a Shurflo installed by Nick Whale, the dealer we purchased our pre-owned Kemerton from. Photos show it's installation under the right/hand end of the bench seat. I subsequently boxed it in for protection and have since added a Seaflo pressure vessel to smooth out the flow. For info the black hose shown in the picture is the additional gravity-fill point I had installed - I trusted neither the Whale submersible nor the Whale fill point and wanted more resilient solutions!

I've no idea about drawing water through a seized pump, and agree with the advice to call AS. They've plenty of experience in retro-fitting Shurflo's and advised Nick Whale how to do ours.

Tim

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by inspiredron Sat 29 Aug 2020, 11:11 pm

My submersible stopped working and my Shurflo draws its water through the old pump. I could have removed it through the inspection cap in the bottom of the tank but chose not to as the weight of the old pump keeps the inlet at the bottom of the tank. To install a Shurflo you will need to find a 12V négative - you can pick up 12V + from the old pressure switch which you will.need to remove.

by rob25 Tue 01 Sep 2020, 6:35 pm

I've decided to go for it with a Shurflo pump as in the post from Kemerton-Bath (I can see where it will fit from those very helpful pictures).
I seem to have a choice of two Trail King 2095 403 pumps - 443 & 444, both rated at 10 l/min. The only difference seems to be that one shuts off at 2 bar and one at 3.1 bar. Does anyone know which would be the better option for a campervan?
Inspiredron, I see I need to pick up the positive from the battery via the pressure switch connector and a negative from somewhere. Any idea where? (I can't just use the other pressure switch connector for this - which connected to the Whale pump +) or have I misunderstood?
I've tried ringing Whale and Autosleeper. Whale only seemed to be answering their sales number and there was no response from Technical, even the direct number given me from Sales. I was too late ringing Autosleeper today (17.03h!).

by rgermain Tue 01 Sep 2020, 8:52 pm

rob25 wrote:I've decided to go for it with a Shurflo pump as in the post from Kemerton-Bath (I can see where it will fit from those very helpful pictures).
I seem to have a choice of two Trail King 2095 403 pumps - 443 & 444, both rated at 10 l/min. The only difference seems to be that one shuts off at 2 bar and one at 3.1 bar. Does anyone know which would be the better option for a campervan?
Inspiredron, I see I need to pick up the positive from the battery via the pressure switch connector and a negative from somewhere. Any idea where? (I can't just use the other pressure switch connector for this - which connected to the Whale pump +) or have I misunderstood?
I've tried ringing Whale and Autosleeper. Whale only seemed to be answering their sales number and there was no response from Technical, even the direct number given me from Sales. I was too late ringing Autosleeper today (17.03h!).

Not sure if this helps, my Shurflo pump is rated at 20psi, seems to work the same as the old sub pump, taps ok, shower the same. I went for the 20 as i didn't want to stress the pipe fittings etc.
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Richard

by Kemerton-bath Tue 01 Sep 2020, 11:06 pm

Our Shurflo type no. is 2095-204-112, rated at 20 PSI.

Tim

by rob25 Wed 02 Sep 2020, 8:40 am

Thanks very much for the information and advice - 20psi seems to be the way to go. I have ordered a 2095-214-412 which seems to be just a later variant - 20psi and 7lpm for £56.60 which is not too painful!
I will try ringing Autosleeper today to see if they can help with the tricky bit - installing it!

by inspiredron Wed 02 Sep 2020, 10:49 am

You can probably pick up 12V neg from the orange/white wire to the solenoid valve located near your Whale inlet.

by MelB Wed 02 Sep 2020, 11:07 am

rob25 wrote:Thanks very much for the information and advice - 20psi seems to be the way to go. I have ordered a 2095-214-412 which seems to be just a later variant - 20psi and 7lpm for £56.60 which is not too painful!
I will try ringing Autosleeper today to see if they can help with the tricky bit - installing it!

Fitting an inline filter has also been suggested by some on this forum.

by rgermain Wed 02 Sep 2020, 11:10 am

I don't know the layout of your van. If you are going to install it near the original pressure adjusting thing for the sub pump, what I was advised and did was to use the feed wire to the pressure adjuster and with a 5a fuse wired this to the pump, the earth side you can run to a metal screw. This way you can still switch the pump off from the control panel.
It took me a while and questions on here, but got there in the end and very pleased with it.
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Richard

by rob25 Fri 04 Sep 2020, 3:41 pm

Hi, I now have my Shurflo pump and am now gathering the necessary fixings, adaptors etc. ..... so sorry, more questions please for Kemerton Bath (hopefully the last ones!).

i. do you remember where you found the adaptor to connect the existing black hose push fitting from the tank to the new flexible hose leading to the new pump?
ii. you didn't have to add any new switches/ fuses to the system? I guess the existing fuse on the Sargent unit and switch on the control panel sufficed?

(I tried Autosleeper and they have promised to get back but I guess they are snowed under at present!)

Kemerton water pump not working

Kemerton water pump not working

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