The experience of buying a brand new camper.

It was very interesting to read the topic about "the experience of buying a second hand campervan".
I would like to start one on "the experience on buying a brand new campervan".
 
My Kingham was sheduled to come out of production on 23-05-2019.  Than final inspection and shipping.  So I anticipated to receive the Kingham somewhere mid june which was perfect for me as I planned my holiday starting on july 1
But the Kingham did not leave because A/S did not have a mattress for it!!!!
To cut a long story short, thanks to extreme actions from Dutch Bull we finally did receive our Kingham on Thursday june 27th at 17.00 hours. 
The Kingham arrived without a mattress!!! So A/S could not organise a mattress in a period of 5 weeks !!!!!
Fortunately Dutch bull had arranged a 24 hour service on a custom made mattress in Holland.  That is what I call logistic power.
 
First of all we noticed several specs were not followed :
-          The cabinet handles were shining instead of matt.
-          The floor lighting had the wrong colour.
-          The flydoor was not mounted but delivered in a separate box inside the Kingham!!! (reply from A/S : we could not fit it)
-          The housing of the airco was white instead of having the same colour as the Van.
 -    The carpet did not fit properly, it was to long on 1 side and to short on the other.
-       The truma I-net box is mounted in such a way that it is impossible to put a simcard in.
 
First big problem : after filling up the Kingham with water we noticed a very big leak. 
In the back of the Van a connection was leaking and water was flowing underfloor to the front of the car were we saw water coming out.
A/S claims they performed a pressure test on the water system!!!
 
Second big problem : the inspection of the Van by Belgian authorities.
-        Inspectors looked at the Auto-sleepers COC and commented : “what is this, we have never seen a COC with so little information.” 
No info on the tires, no info on the air suspension which was fitted. 
Luckily I had insisted to get the Peugeot COC from Auto-Sleepers (which wasn’t necessary according to Dave Williams). 
This COC showed the info on the tires which helped. 
So I started a lot of smooth talking explaining that Auto-Sleepers was a reputable company with a long standing tradition in building campervans but were rather new to the Belgian market.  So in the end they finally accepted the COC’s as they were and they approved it. They also confirmed that I definately did need the Peugeot COC.
Third big problem : the control panel broke down after 2 weeks.
-        From the moment the panel broke down we couldn’t use the lighting, the water pump, the controls on batteries, fresh and waste water situation, etc…. 
So basically we were on holiday in a metal tent and not in a luxury van.  Although the outside lights and the floor lights are also controlled by the panel we could keep on using these.
 We couldn’t wash ourselves in the van.  We tried to carry on with our holiday with bottles of water for the toilet and had a torch for the lighting. 
But this was a situation which was very unsatisfactory so we cancelled the rest of our holiday.
In order to try to solve this problem we first checked the owner manuals.  Stupid enough the manual described a power supply unit which is not present in our Kingham.  We have the EC700 built in and in the manual was another one with different amount of fuses etc…  Later on we discovered there was a separate manual on the EC700
More problems
-       In the bathroom the sealing is done very badly.  Around the washing table it is oke but behind the toilet a lot of the sealant just was not present.  We did not dare to use the shower in order not to create other water problems due to the sealing which was missing.
-        Top left drawer in the kitchen doesn’t close properly and was rattling like crazy while driving.  So we had to block it with some cloth during driving as the noise drove us crazy.
 
-          The doors above the mirror are closing far to softly and they open up during driving.  We do not have this problem with the doors below the mirror which have the same closing system. 
The plastic cover of the cabinet under the passenger seat is hard to close and to keep in its place.  It is also cut in a very unprofessional way and it looks like some parts are missing. 
 
I found 1 extra light behind the leisure battery.  This one was damaged on the plastic housing so I did not dare to click it in.  It looks like they have tried to put it in the rail but it was not positioned very well so it got damaged.  Instead of replacing it they just hide it behind the leisure battery.
 
-        The overflow of the leisure battery was not connected.  Fortunately I did not have an overflow before I found this error.
 
A very fragile part of the Vans water system on the left side under the bench wasn’t protected at all and which is bound to get damaged during usage of the Van.
 
 
-       The Remis system on the front window has 2 screws which were loose and could not be fastened.  The fasteners were ok on drivers side but not on the passenger side.

The doorpanel of the big cabinet above the fridge is twisted and does not close properly.
 
-        The door of the middle cabinet above the bed is not lined up properly with the 2 other cabinets.
-          The third drawer in the second row in the kitchen is opening and closing in a difficult way.  It just does not slide properly like the other drawers do.
 
The water in the kitchen and bathroom sink is running off VERY slowly.
 
-          We noticed finger marks on the sealing in the driving compartment.
 
 
-          On the bathroom door there were markings made as guidance were the workers had to put the screws
      I can understand they have to do that, but I do not understand that these markings are not removed after usage.

The stripings outside are already coming loose a little bit. 
 
So after our holiday the Kingham went back to the dealer for a lot of repairs.
After 2 weeks we could pick it up and used it 2 consecutive weekends which gave more problems
 
 
First weekend. (16.08 – 19.08) (by this time the original mattress from A/S had arrived in Holland)

• That weekend we had some rain which resulted in a leak at the rear top window. (very frustrating).
  
• After 1 day, the waterpump kept on turning, so we disabled it after each use. (very ennoying).
  
• When taking water we did get a lot of airbubbles, so we are afraid of yet another (hidden) leak somewhere.
  
• The Remis at the rear window was completely stuck and could not be closed.
  
• The lifting system for the bed worked fine with the original mattress.  Unfortunately, after 2 days it did not lock anymore.
  
• At a certain moment we noticed that the sink in the kitchen was very wet at the underside.  Again there is a fear for a leak.  The sink was not screwed in the kitchen furniture.
  

 
Second weekend. (23.08 – 25.08)

• A cover of a loudspeaker did fall off.  Looks like no good glew has been used.
  

• The carpet cover at the long window alongside the bed came loose over a length of 12 – 15 cm below the window.  Looks like not enough or no good glew has been used.
  

• The rubber knob in the sink which holds the cover was broken off.  As far as we know we did not put any heavy stuff on the cover.  Than again we would expect this knob to be able to hold some weight.
  
• The aerial disc is touching the housing of the airco so creating scratches.  Dutchbull has bended the disc slightly to overcome this problem.
  

We also noticed that the heating element under the watertank came loose and was hanging around.  So I used Ductape to hold it.
 
The replaced touchscreen started acting crazy again so Dutch Bull decided to return the Kingham to A/S for a complete repair.
 
Last week the Kingham came back from A/S and we used it again in the weekend.
So far all looks good although 1 time the outdoor lighting came on again when I opened the Kingham with my remote control.
 
So we will now use it as much as we can and hopefully all our problems have been solved but I hold my breath.
 
I must admit my girlfriend and I fell in love with the Kingham the moment we saw it.
It was exactly what we were looking for in a campervan.
The love is still present but the trust is gone completely.



   

Shocking, not a good start at all.

What a terrible situation, just not acceptable in anyway.

I am pleased that I have AS older vans which were built well and are substantial and live up to their original good name.

I am sorry but I cannot understand this firm AS at all, don`t the workers think of their jobs, maybe not now but in the future? No reputable firm would dare sends out goods in that state, their livelihood depends on it.

I am so sorry for the OP and hope that it is sorted soon for them, they are obviously not going to recommend AS vans to their countrymen.

Very best regards,
Margaret

What a sad indictment of 21st century British manufacturing.

I am so sorry, Roger & Helma, that you have had to experience this. 

I would have rejected the vehicle as not fit for purpose, but I hope your patience and perseverance in getting these things attended to will pay off long term for you.

Another reason why I have just spent £5k+ on the mechanical side to keep my 2002 Pollensa roadworthy for a few years more, hopefully, as the quality of the conversion is clearly superior from that era compared to today's AS output, sadly.

Lets hope the van is now 'sorted', seriously though tales like this have totally put me off buying a new van, so few now seem to come out of the factory with everything working properly or put together properly and it is certainly not a problem unique to Autosleepers.

It just shouldn't be this way.

I feel for you Roger but you are just confirming what I have been saying for 5 years. What I will say is how impressed I am with your dealer getting a mattress custom made. I cant think of any British dealers going the extra mile ...
        Confirms what I heard on a site from a fellow Scot who buys all his vans in Germany. He was treated like family and had exemplary service to the point when he broke the door handle on his new van after arriving home  they sent a technician who flew over next day and  who arrived at his home in a hire car ftom the airport , replaced the lock and left for home - no charge even although it was his misuse that caused the issue.  Dealers here just seem to want to turn you upside down to extract the last few pennies left in your pocket!

I think this is one of the most important threads on the Forum for some time. It is not an isolated example: others have reported similar experiences - but poor Roger and Helma's is the worst. You have my sympathy.

I fear that AutoSleepers' reputation is seriously threatened.

Why is it that the majority of new-van A/S purchasers in, say, the last 5 years, seem to have had problems which required professional intervention? As has been written hitherto, a motorhome is complex. But so is a car. There seems no doubt that quality control at A/S (they're not alone) is poor. The writing is clearly on the wall.

I have nostalgic goodwill towards A/S: I've had one for 30+ years. But I now harbour very serious doubts that my next motorhome - if any - will be from Willersey.

Cymro

Words fail me.!!
I remember a similar thread some years ago. I came to the conclusion here,which was that AS does not have a QA system in place,and said so. Quality control is delegated to the customer.
As my own  smaller companies had 5750 and 9001 Quality systems in place to be able to do work for major companies i know it could be done.

 The  after care is  abismal as  well.

Micky

I have written to AS quoting this thread and asking for their comments on it. I will share any reply with this forum.

What an utter shambles, AS should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.  Their tag line “motorhomes of excellence” looks a bit dented tonight.

I can’t imagine many vans get exported direct from Willersey to overseas customers, so the smart thing would have been for AS to go the extra mile to impress and fly the British flag with pride.  I recall our (well-made) 2009 Symbol had a small flag badge on the rear offside door, fitted at the factory, to presumably make that very point.  

Fast forward 10 years to current practice and sadly the contrast couldn’t be more stark.  I note that flag badges are no longer fitted (they disappeared years ago) and apparently it’s perfectly acceptable to AS for their vans to leave the factory in the state reported here. Instead of going that extra mile for a rare overseas client they’ve done the exact opposite and destroyed his trust within just a few months. It could have been so different, a great opportunity to showcase these British motorhomes of excellence. 

In October we visited the Caravan Salon in Düsseldorf and came away underwhelmed by the many van conversions we looked at.  We remarked on how innovative the design and layout of AS vans were in contrast to the ubiquitous half-dinettes in the European vans, and we pondered why British designs were not more evident over there.  In fact we saw no UK van manufacturers exhibiting there, and maybe that says something. 

So I’m not surprised that Roger fell in love with the Kingham, it’s a superb looking, well equipped van, as is our own Kemerton.  But I read his account with great dismay.  A few snags on a complex new van are to be expected, but the situation here is far more serious, with some fundamental issues.  For example there is clearly a problem with Sargent’s new electrical control system, as other posts on here have highlighted.  It has all the hallmarks of being rolled out with inadequate stress testing.  For AS to then compound it by issuing the incorrect manual is a dismal own goal.  

More vexing than anything though is the apparent lack of workmanship in the factory - for example inadequate sealant, poorly fitted drawers, and even dirty fingerprints on the ceiling.  And yes, we too have the installer’s pencil marks on the inside surfaces of our tambour doors - it irritates me every time I have a shower!

It all points to a lack of basic workmanship and an attitude of “we don’t give a monkey’s” at every level - production, quality control, and management oversight.  Our 2014 Kemerton is an excellent van, despite the pencil marks on the shower doors but thankfully without the problems reported above and in similar recent posts on here.  I hope it stays that way, as there’s little chance we’d be happy to raid the pension pot and trade up to something newer!  What a sad reflection on British manufacturing and attitude though.

I hope Roger gets quickly to a point where all this is history and he can enjoy his Kingham. AS vans are well designed and equipped vans, with a specification above much of the competition ... but they need to be built with care and pride, as indeed they once were.

Tim

You might have read our experiences with our Kemerton XL of which we took delivery this July. Within two weeks before we'd even had a night away the EC700 LCD panel failed. After driving to Sargent near Beverly in Yorkshire it was reprogrammed and we managed a few days away. Then a few weeks later it completely failed, necessitating a 2 hour drive so the dealer could replaced the panel. I'd say this wasn't A/S's fault, more Sargent's.

Most of the irritations I have with our van are minor things I can fix, like a rattling microwave, fixed by jambing a length of silicone tubing at the top. There is however the issue in our bathroom of the chrome mixer tap becoming loose and wobbly. I've already been back again to the dealer (2 hour drive plus overnight stay) to have the tap fixed, but I'd say it's going to become loose again after we have a few more nights away. I'm sure I can make a better job of fixing it but it's under warranty, the sink surround needs to come out to get to the tap.

Reading your account, I'd say in comparison we've been lucky. We're not that close to our dealer but we could so easily have bought our van from a dealer even further away.

Our Kemerton XL does not appear to be as well built as our previous A/S van, more down to a price now, than up to a quality then.

Apparently in the latest vans A/S have addressed the issue of the slow emptying of the sinks.

I dare the Auto Sleepers Owners' Club (of which I am a member) to reproduce Roger and Helma's post. If they want to help A/S, be a critical friend and show that all is not well at the moment.

Cymro

Spospe......Would be very intrested to read AS response to your letter,should you get one!!!.
It would be great if they took notice that their reputation is dulling due to constant issues which ought to be avoidable if they cared.
They do make nice vans,just make them badly. I think its a present day issue with lots of manufacturers,when they are on a roll they up production within the same time scale  to increase their profits which generally equates to less time for quality.
Roger and  Helma.....sorry to hear your problems,its certainly one of the worst tales of wo.As you like the van i hope you go on to have many happy trips once its sorted out.

Spospe wrote:I have written to AS quoting this thread and asking for their comments on it. I will share any reply with this forum.

I would be very surprised if they made any meaningful comment to any unrelated third party, never mind on a public forum, on something which is a contractual matter between them, the dealer and the customer.  

But let's wait and see . . .

What an absolutely appalling litany of quality issues.
It is beyond comprehension that this vehicle ever left the factory.
I would hope that A/S follow up these extremely serious failings using the build number and that disciplinary action is taken against all the employees involved in its production.

I feel extremely sorry for the purchasers.

Sagabike wrote:
I would hope that A/S follow up these extremely serious failings using the build number and that disciplinary action is taken against all the employees involved in its production.

 The problem is not the workers, it is the management.

Mark use to tell the workers, but no notice was taken, that is how I understood it at the time.

Yes management issue, they should be on the ball about their products and what goes on in the workshop. this beggars belief, what do customers have to do for them to sit up and take note.

When they go down the river will they be crying tales of woe? better firms than this have gone down that route.

I wonder if a short-sharp-shock would help, just before retiring 8 years ago, the guy in the next door factory unit bought 4 medium size Peugeot vans, started having various issues with all of them, kept taking them back ( only 1/2 mile away ) but after several visits, the dealership tired & refused any more help.
One morning he got his guys to park the vans hard up against the showroom & all entrances, locked them up & brought the keys back, it was on a main road & mayhem ensued for a few hours, AND he called the local press, 'headquarters' soon had them back in & sorted.
Drastic yes, but it worked in this case.

So sorry to hear of this, it's totally unacceptable and I would reject it but it justifies my decision to buy German.
Rich..

RML wrote:So sorry to hear of this, it's totally unacceptable and I would reject it but it justifies my decision to buy German.
Rich..

Sorry but it doesn't. Parked in my grounds right now is a Burstner just purchased by a neighbour, showed me the pull down bed, as he pulled it down the front fell off. Our sons Laika ( now part of Hymer) the toilet fell through the floor, I know of a Hymer which has been a can of worms and well remember the Dutchman on his way to the Neissmann and Bischoff factory for the FIFTH time after the windscreen had fallen out of his van in the latest line of failures, that is a van that cost in excess of £150,000.
German, French,British,Italian all of these vans are built out of flimsy materials to get down to a cost and a weight, some are better than others for sure but I don't believe German vans per se are the legend they are cracked up by many to be.

The problem with A/s is they appear to have little or no quality control. They have no feedback loop from service/ warranty department  to factory floor as the same old common build  issues occur year after year and 'Mark' always seemed to know all about our latest issue. When I asked if they could be flagged up to the factory floor to avoid issue in future I swear I could see the shrug of shoulders.They display an arrogance and little customer care backed up by stingy warranties compared to other brands, even brands under the same overall ownership umbrella. All manufacturers use similar appliances , base vehicles and wood products so it is down to build quality and ultimately quality control. It should not be up to retailers to have to rebuild vans during PDI , they should leave the factory gate 100% fully tested .
        I have personal experience of  this from 2015 and when I reported this to the forum at the time was almost treated by some as a heretic and burned at the stake for daring to slur their beloved brand !  Some suggested I just get a  stiff upper lip, sticky back plastic and sellotape out and fix my van myself which through necessity I have done ever since. The problem is the vans are now costing upwards of 62 thousand pounds and most SANE purchasers in this price bracket have no wish or inclination  to appear as though they in constant reruns of Blue Peter with nails and glue pot out and rightly so!
       Its sad really as A/s layouts can be very very good and appeal to british buyers especially as apparently we spend more time inside our vans due to poorer weather expectations. With current quality issues and several rival companies producing vans at 2 thirds the price , with the same base vehicle ,  heating and appliances etc I feel a long awaited shake up is needed.

rgermain wrote:

groundhog wrote:

RML wrote:So sorry to hear of this, it's totally unacceptable and I would reject it but it justifies my decision to buy German.
Rich..

Sorry but it doesn't. Parked in my grounds right now is a Burstner just purchased by a neighbour, showed me the pull down bed, as he pulled it down the front fell off. Our sons Laika ( now part of Hymer) the toilet fell through the floor, I know of a Hymer which has been a can of worms and well remember the Dutchman on his way to the Neissmann and Bischoff factory for the FIFTH time after the windscreen had fallen out of his van in the latest line of failures, that is a van that cost in excess of £150,000.
German, French,British,Italian all of these vans are built out of flimsy materials to get down to a cost and a weight, some are better than others for sure but I don't believe German vans per se are the legend they are cracked up by many to be.

Do not be fooled by the Germans, friend of mine bought a brand new Dethleffs motorhome and sold it after 12 months due to water in the garage section and signs of rust, also the habitation heater never worked as it should.

My son is still waiting for VW to sort out the fraud issues with the emissions, he is hoping they buy it back like in the US
----------
Richard

The ironic thing of course is a relative has an often maligned Swift, he has owned it three years from new and never had a problem!

If we are to make a success of Brexit then surely we should be making the best motorhome in Europe,or indeed the best of everything to export

Mt67minimotos wrote:If we are to make a success of Brexit then surely we should be making the best motorhome in Europe,or indeed the best of everything to export

You are absolutely right.
I can only speak for the North American market where Fiat/Peugeot are pretty much non existent, cars or vans and by there own admission do not currently plan to build vehicles for this market. The chances for any manufacturer of motorhomes making inroads using Peugeot or Fiat bases in slim in the US and Canada. The product that side of the Atlantic is altogether different.