Kingham: Draughts

We love our 2017 Kingham and have now notched up 16,000 miles in UK and several continenal countries.

But if the outside temperature falls, we are beset by draughts, apparently at a low level. We've learned to switch the heater vents to recirculate, but despite out best efforts we can't find the source. A friend with a Fiat  based motorhome discovered an open hatch in the floor beneath the driver's seat, but our Peugeot doesn't seem to have one. Our dealer says there are open vents under both cab seats, but I can't find  them.

Anyone else experience this?

There are fixed vents in the floor under each gas appliance and gas isolation valve position. Cause of draughts?

Is fridge sealed around, they often aren't? I sealed around mine with adhesive foam from Lidl

This has been a source of frustration for us in our Kingham, the amount of exposed metal on/around the sliding door is definitely a source of cold air along with the cab area windows, etc. The generally poor blown air circulation at the front of the van from inadequate (small diameter) ducts adds to the much colder living/cab area - unless the heating is on gas or mixed with blower set high. This doesn't work at night as we find the bed gets too hot (over the heater), so, when on hookup, we use a small oil filled radiator at the front of the van and, if really cold, the Truma set to low on electric. I have considered fitting a larger duct to the living area - may get around to this sometime! A good external insulated screen cover also helps but obviously is inconvenient if your want a view during daytime!

Our previous Symbol was always draughty, mainly from the fridge, but the Kemerton is much better. The rear doors are a common source of draughts, especially at the latching points, so we now fit a runner that covers the join between the two doors from top to bottom.  We also plan to stuff more insulation into the doors.

Our Pollensa was very draughty around the fridge until I sealed it. We also found draughts coming through the front seat belt enclosures.  I managed to remove those and pack some insulation in in such a way as to not risk impeding the seat belt operation.

We only have the single hab door which is draught free - there is a vent in the its footwell but that is deeply recessed below floor level and right in the rear corner so doesn't cause any draughts.

We used to get a lot of cold draughts when we relied on only the internal curtains between the cab and hab areas but since we started using external silver screens we don't use them, so the whole space reaches a reasonable temperature equilibrium. We now have the Velcro'd fold-down versions so we can get a view in the daytime without removing them completely and these are also the type that cover the scuttle so minimising air intake even if we forget to set the vents to circulation.

In the coldest weather we also tend to run a small oil filled radiator (DeLonghi Bambino) towards the front of the van between the driver and passenger seats, set on low to give background comfort level overnight.

I've just modified the wiring to the Truma heater so I can now use a timer to bring that on at a higher setting to get the van really toasty before we get up in the morning.

Whatever you do, don't block the gas vents as it could kill you. Leisure vehicles need a flow of air from outside to balance the moisture content, otherwise you'd get extreme condensation as the internal air will become saturated from cooking, showering, kettles and humans and dogs breathing etc. Extreme condensation can cause damp, mould and rust. Single glazing, as in windscreen, cab doors and in the case of A/S PVC's the sides and rear glazing will transmit the temperature from outside. Plastic double glazed units and insulated wall panels as in coachbuilts are better at keeping heat in and cold out.

NickJW wrote:This has been a source of frustration for us in our Kingham, the amount of exposed metal on/around the sliding door is definitely a source of cold air along with the cab area windows, etc. The generally poor blown air circulation at the front of the van from inadequate (small diameter) ducts adds to the much colder living/cab area - unless the heating is on gas or mixed with blower set high. This doesn't work at night as we find the bed gets too hot (over the heater), so, when on hookup, we use a small oil filled radiator at the front of the van and, if really cold, the Truma set to low on electric. I have considered fitting a larger duct to the living area - may get around to this sometime! A good external insulated screen cover also helps but obviously is inconvenient if your want a view during daytime!

it may have been in MMM magazine, but ive definitely read of an owner having AS make some changes prior to delivery to get over a couple of known Kingham issues...
the change was to move the Truma Combi from under the bed (where it is miles from the front vents and cant deliver any reasonable heat) to a central position under the side bench, giving a balanced distribution to front and rear.
this also freed up space under bed as the heater was compromising any decent underbed storage.
the bed was also raised quite a bit, again to increase the available volume of storage and a small discrete step was added to the front corner of the bed to aid access.
i remember looking at the Kingham at the NEC on its release (we were looking at smaller vans) and being desperately disappointed at the tiny underbed storage and, having some experience of a rear mounted Combi in our Bolero, I feared poor cab/lounge heating performance.
the changes made by this owner seemed perfectly logical and he was delighted that they had delivered the increase in livability dramatically.
AS carried out the work but ive never seen these changes mentioned anywhere else....seems like a good idea to me.

If the trunking goes outside the van, which it probably doesn't, some of the heat will be lost, especially if the trunking is uninsulated. However if, as is usual, the trunking is inside the van, then the heat will still warm the van's interior, even though it might not make it to the outlet. The problem is that cold trunking takes a while to warm up, as do cold furniture and upholstery surfaces, so vans need a heck of a lot of heat initially to get all up to a comfortable level. Once that initial chill is overcome the heat required can be scaled back. 
In the case of a long length of trunking, very often the air from the heater has lost all it's warmth so the end of the trunking never really warms up properly, but the areas around the beginning of the trunking will benefit. In a well insulated, relatively small area, like a PVC the warmth should easily spread around, no matter where the source.

in a 6.36m van and the Combi at the far end of the van (especially with some small bore piping in the middle) i would disagree...

far better to have the heater centrally where the longest pipe run would be nearer 2.5-3m.

this also allows the lower power (electric) settings to still be effective.
as mentioned above, with poorly designed systems it becomes necessary to use mixed or gas only power to reach the extremities of the pipework with any sensible delivery of heat.

My point is that to an extent it doesn't matter if no heat comes out the trunking outlets as the trunking itself will always radiate heat along it's length. Running high heat outputs from the Combi will make the trunking surfaces even hotter and may result in more warmth from the outlet, though higher fan speed at lower heat setting might yield a similar result. It's likely that wherever you site the Combi will always be the warmest spot, with the warmth level decreasing as you move further away. The ideal heat profile within a room or van is a consistent level, rather than hotspots by appliances or outlets.

Of course, if the trunking runs through bench lockers and they have copious amounts of bedding in them, it's likely the bedding will act as insulation, stopping the warmth from the trunking exterior spreading into the van. This has two effects. One is very warm bedding when you come to use it and the other is that more heat will reach the outlet as the trunking will be insulated and therefore not lose so much heat as the warm air is transmitted along the tube.

We found on our Kingham that the worse draught came from behind kitchen unit, and around base of sliding habitation door.

If the sliding side door leaks draught on a Kingham it'll leak draught on all Sevel X250 vans whatever the conversion.

steamdrivenandy wrote:If the sliding side door leaks draught on a Kingham it'll leak draught on all Revel X250 vans whatever the conversion.

Bit of a generalisation. Ours is fine. Since we sleep with our feet against it, we'd soon be aware if it wasn't.

Well they are all the same and A/S, Autotrail, Swift, Devon, Hymer, Adria, Timberland, Wildax etc, etc all use the same door and the same sliding and locking mechanism.

...and many, many more brands besides....but perhaps there is a bit of adjustment on these that could make a difference.

ive not heard of Globecar, Rapido, Dreamer, Hymer etc having draughty sliding doors...

keeping a van warm in cold weather requires a decent heating system that doesnt waste heat and the elimination of those annoying draughts. 

fridges really should be sealed properly, if not there is the possibility of unburnt gas coming back into the habitation area....quite serious but an area where converters are pretty sloppy..

On all the gas fridges I've had (5) the gas flue is a separate sealed tube that runs up the the side of the cooling vent space and exits through a part of the air vent grille. So there is little risk of gases getting into the van that way, even if the fridge isn't sealed to the cabinetry. Unburnt gas is heavier than air and will descend to the bottom of the fridge space and out via the gas vent in the floor which is there for that very purpose.

If a side door is out of adjustment it will be a Sevel factory problem and nothing to do with the Kingham conversion by A/S as they treat the doors the same on all their conversions, basically just adding some interior trim/door cards.

I have the same problem. The heating doesn’t manage to reach the front. I have a silver screen on the front window.  I shut the air input for the vehicle heating. I made two sausage type draft excluders to push up against the door along the side of the sink unit and at the bottom of the sliding door. I’ve since had much better results using a fleece throw over suspended from a thin curtain pole to cover the side door. The pole is also used to suspend a fly screen in summer.

steamdrivenandy wrote:On all the gas fridges I've had (5) the gas flue is a separate sealed tube that runs up the the side of the cooling vent space and exits through a part of the air vent grille. So there is little risk of gases getting into the van that way, even if the fridge isn't sealed to the cabinetry. Unburnt gas is heavier than air and will descend to the bottom of the fridge space and out via the gas vent in the floor which is there for that very purpose.

If a side door is out of adjustment it will be a Sevel factory problem and nothing to do with the Kingham conversion by A/S as they treat the doors the same on all their conversions, basically just adding some interior trim/door cards.

Nail on head on both counts, SDA.

The Kingham draught seems to be something specific to that particular vehicle and can only be an AS issue if during the conversion the door was removed and not refitted correctly.

I don't think converters remove side doors if they can help it. They're awkward and heavy tho remove and refit, with a risk that it won't go back correctly. Best to avoid messing if poss.

We had the same issue of being colder up the front end and hotter at the back of our kingham, we have sort of sorted this issue by having a extra heating vent put in under the bench seat.  By closing the vent in the washroom we can direct the hot air more towards the front.