Here Goes, Holding Breath

Hi Everybody. Let me be honest first off, I don't actually own a Autosleeper Symbol at the moment, but I had to lie, just to get my foot in the door and plead with Paul the Admin I believe for mercy. Please let me explain why I am here in the first place. I have been researching for a few months what I think we needed in our first Motorhome, and scouring all the major companies and all the vans at the price I could possibly afford, and asking ourselves what our priorities are in purchasing the van. After whittling it down, it became quite obvious to us that size of the van was the most important for the flexibilty in getting to  locations in very dark areas of the country to avoid light polution for my Astronomy observations, this would likely require obscure locations and theirfore am looking at a fair bit of wildcamping in the Yorkshire Dales and Galloway in Scotland, although to be fair it looks like a lot of Scotland falls into this category, not to mention many other places. I live in Doncaster and the Light Polution around here is terrible,it means I have to travel to distant locations to be able to view the Heavens. Anyway, as I say once the size was decided, we fell in love with the look of the Symbol/Symphony and they seemed to tick all the boxes, except one, and that is such a lack of storage space, the storage to be honest does look pitiful, but I guess thats the price I would have to pay, and the compromise accepted. OK, having decided on the Van I want, I found this forum and did a search on "Symbol" and couldnt quite believe the knowledge and kindness of help and Advice that this specific little community gives out, most of it I dont understand and the terminologys used, but I still find them interesting.I first came across Paul ? the Admin from the very earliest posts and it was these posts that kind of put me in his own mindset about 5 years ago. I am now in that position and I need help in choosing the van I need. I have about £12000 to spend, so I figure that the only way to go is buying Private because I havent anything to trade against at a Dealers, and will not pay the markups on price they are asking. I am looking ideally for that elderly couple  that are thinking of retireing from  Motorhoming, and that I could give them a good fair price for their well looked after Van that has served them well over the years. The MAIN question I wanted to ask at the moment is, do I go Petrol or Diesel, and what size of Engine to go for, and which problematic engines to look out in the ranges available. Sorry for the long boring intro, but there is so much I need to learn. I wish I had an Electric Hookup to all your brains and instantly download you all. Anyway, if I have got this far without being booted off, thankyou for your patience, and if I'm not booted, then any help and advice would be gratefull. I really need it right now. Thanks. Graham and Barbara

Hi and welcome to the forum from Bridlington 
Boaby

Welcome from Bakewell (away touring at moment). Whether I am the Paul you refer to I'm not sure as I may be a moderator but I'm not the Admin (he's not a Paul). 
We started 9 years ago with a Symphony which we kept for 5 years. It was petrol and a 97 model (there were very few diesel Symphonies around that age. Storage is tight but we managed trips up to two weeks or longer if we used sites with laundry.
I'm sure others will be along soon to offer their opinions but remember no question is stupid if you don't know the answer.   

Welcome to the forum Graham and Barbara 

No need to worry about "getting booted out", if you have ambitions to own an Auto Sleeper vehicle then you will hopefully get the kind of advice you seek here (from those who know the Symbol of that vintage). Storage is the kind of issue that regularly gets discussed, I guess everybody wants the smallest vehicle for the driving and parking bits, but the biggest when we want to eat, sleep and store all our bits and pieces.

Welcome, also, to the world of compromise  

Hi and welcome.
Had my 1995 Symphony since 2002 and can't say we ever had any issues with storage? We came up through tents, trailer tent and a Trafic before getting the Boxer so perhaps we were self trained to use less / make the most of space?

Mine's petrol - don't like diesels but that's just me. If you go for petrol, you won't have a choice in engine size, they're are all 2ltr.

Frank

Paulmold wrote:Welcome from Bakewell (away touring at moment). Whether I am the Paul you refer to I'm not sure as I may be a moderator but I'm not the Admin (he's not a Paul). 
We started 9 years ago with a Symphony which we kept for 5 years. It was petrol and a 97 model (there were very few diesel Symphonies around that age. Storage is tight but we managed trips up to two weeks or longer if we used sites with laundry.
I'm sure others will be along soon to offer their opinions but remember no question is stupid if you don't know the answer.   

Yes Paul,you are the one I'm referring to, sorry for the dates mixups,but as I said in the post, I seem to have the same doubts and fears you had all those years ago. Its such a daunting task in taking that first baby step,but we so want to try it without making a huge mistake in buying a Turkey to start with. Can I ask you, is your current Symbol a Petrol as well, and was there a reason for keeping with Petrol as opposed to a diesel,others on other forums ( not Autosleeper specific) seem to think the 2 litre petrol is a little too unpowered for something like the Scottish Highlands, and think a 2.2 Diesel would be better suited.  I dont need to break any speed records, just to get over the hills would be good enough without going backwards ( A huge plus  ). I suppose I'm looking at a 2000 - 2002 model. your thoughts would be of great help. Has the Symbol been reliable ?

Askit wrote:Welcome to the forum Graham and Barbara 

No need to worry about "getting booted out", if you have ambitions to own an Auto Sleeper vehicle then you will hopefully get the kind of advice you seek here (from those who know the Symbol of that vintage). Storage is the kind of issue that regularly gets discussed, I guess everybody wants the smallest vehicle for the driving and parking bits, but the biggest when we want to eat, sleep and store all out bits and pieces.

Welcome, also, to the world of compromise  

Thankyou Askit. The first step is daunting

No longer have a Symbol/Symphony. We swopped it 4 years ago for a Nuevo 2.2 diesel and swopped again beginning of year for Sussex Duo (Warwick Duo in disguise) also 2.2 diesel. 
We are plodders and for the size the Symphony with 2 litre petrol engine was fine but mine struggled to keep over 60 on motorways but I know Frank's diesndo struggle like that so perhaps it was just mine that had that problem.As we swopped for newer vehicles, then we didn't have a choice as petrol engines just weren't available.

Welcome to the forum. Thant’s a tidy old introduction and as Tony said don’t worry about getting booted off you are one of many who joined the forum to research their possible purchases.   We also have a few who have sold their AS vans but we want them to stay as they are part of our community 

We have never had a Symbol but I have always thought it to be the largest van that could be powered by the petrol engine.  The diesels are more economical and have a bit more power.

Paulmold wrote:No longer have a Symbol/Symphony. We swopped it 4 years ago for a Nuevo 2.2 diesel and swopped again beginning of year for Sussex Duo (Warwick Duo in disguise) also 2.2 diesel. 
We are plodders and for the size the Symphony with 2 litre petrol engine was fine but mine struggled to keep over 60 on motorways but I know Frank's diesndo struggle like that so perhaps it was just mine that had that problem.As we swopped for newer vehicles, then we didn't have a choice as petrol engines just weren't available.

Ha Ha Ha, My confusion is I started reading the posts from the oldest to latest, I am only up to late 2013 at the moment, and everybody on the Forum is still only 32 years old. LOL. I am reading the posts as if they have only recently been posted and forgotten I'm sat in the Tardis .I'm not yet familiar with your models,but I take it that you have gone bigger ?. Actually the Nuevo was interesting to me, untill I saw the prices,and then I was a lot less interested  . Old bangers have more charactor anyway 

roli wrote:Welcome to the forum. Thant’s a tidy old introduction and as Tony said don’t worry about getting booted off you are one of many who joined the forum to research their possible purchases.   We also have a few who have sold their AS vans but we want them to stay as they are part of our community 

We have never had a Symbol but I have always thought it to be the largest van that could be powered by the petrol engine.  The diesels are more economical and have a bit more power.

Thanks Roli for your welcome, I have never had a Diesel, but I do understand that they are indeed more powerfull, but looking at what I am wanting to pay,perhaps a lot out of my Budget, £12000 I'm afraid. It sucks being poor

burlingtonboaby wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum from Bridlington 
Boaby

Thanks for the welcome burlington, seems like a really cool site I've found myself in, and I didnt even get kicked off, which is even cooler

The implication that diesel engines are more powerful that petrol ones [size for size] is wrong.
From 1994 to 2002, the engine size and power output in bhp fitted to Boxers are:
1.9 diesel                  70
1.9 diesel  turbo        86
2.5 diesel turbo       100
In 2002, the common rail engine was introduced.
2.0 diesel                 86
2.2 diesel               104
2.8 diesel               127
Taken from Glass's guide.
Diesel engines are more economical and have high torque. they give max power lower down the rev range, giving the impression of being more powerful.

The 2ltr petrol engine gives 108bhp.

Frank

Hello and welcome to this most friendly and informative forum.

Hello and    from Leicestershire, Hope you find what you are looking for. All questions have an answer on here, so you are in the right place.

Hello and welcome to the forum Constan42. We had a !997 petrol Symphony bought new and loved it; I didn't find it underpowered at the time and I wouldn't be put off by the type of fuel. I think that with a secondhand van, the way it's been looked after is more important.
By the way Paul, being always curious about previous vans that I've had... I don't suppose that your previous 1997 Symphony' reg began NTV by any chance?!  Long shot I know!

boxerman wrote:The implication that diesel engines are more powerful that petrol ones [size for size] is wrong.
From 1994 to 2002, the engine size and power output in bhp fitted to Boxers are:
1.9 diesel                  70
1.9 diesel  turbo        86
2.5 diesel turbo       100
In 2002, the common rail engine was introduced.
2.0 diesel                 86
2.2 diesel               104
2.8 diesel               127
Taken from Glass's guide.
Diesel engines are more economical and have high torque. they give max power lower down the rev range, giving the impression of being more powerful.

The 2ltr petrol engine gives 108bhp.

Frank

Wow. That is fantastic info Frank,and goes along way in thinking the fuel type is not a major issue in my decision choice except at the bottom revs maybe, so thats one big answer I've learnt, its not a major deal. Your Username really should be Spaceman, rather than boxerman,for your knowledge alone. Thankyou, big help

Paramedic wrote:Hello and welcome to this most friendly and informative forum.

I'm learning this very quickly Paramedic. Thankyou for a most Gracious welcome.

daisy mae wrote:Hello and    from Leicestershire, Hope you fins what you are looking for. All questions have an answer on here, so you are in the right place.

Thankyou Daisy Mae. Leicestershire, now thats one county that I know so little about, its always been a little too far for a day out in the car, but with a motorhome I could spread my wings at leisure. Grrrr, why does it seem everybody in the World has a Gypsy Wagon except me. Its just not fair

merv wrote:Hello and welcome to the forum Constan42. We had a !997 petrol Symphony bought new and loved it; I didn't find it underpowered at the time and I wouldn't be put off by the type of fuel. I think that with a secondhand van, the way it's been looked after is more important.
By the way Paul, being always curious about previous vans that I've had... I don't suppose that your previous 1997 Symphony' reg began NTV by any chance?!  Long shot I know!

Thanks for that Merv. There is a Symphony/Symbol out there someplace waiting for me,I know there is, its just that I don't where she is right now, but I will find her. Its going to be love at first sight, I know it is. Its gonna feel like being 17 all over again   Haaaa !!!

I was looking on the web last night out of curiosity, and saw a few Symbols they are out there,

 Probably not on your door step, never are, I have travelled all over the country searching for my vans. In the depths of winter last year to Perth, a long way for me. NOT SUITABLE, Swansea the first time I started looking, then Kent, , went all four sides of UK. When searching for all four of my vans.There is one with your name on it. 

Good luck.

Best wishes,
Margaret

daisy mae wrote:I was looking on the web last night out of curiosity, and saw a few Symbols they are out there,

 Probably not on your door step, never are, I have travelled all over the country searching for my vans. In the depths of winter last year to Perth, a long way for me. NOT SUITABLE, Swansea the first time I started looking, then Kent, , went all four sides of UK. When searching for all four of my vans.There is one with your name on it. 

Good luck.

Best wishes,
Margaret

Your right Margaret, She is out there I know. They always say that somewhere down the deepest darkest Alley, there lies the brightest Jewel. As you say,that Van has my name on it.I will wait as long as it takes. It must hurt to travel so far, to find a Van didnt live up to expectations.
    Four Vans hey, sounds like your well versed in this hobby of ours. I love just reading about peoples experiences, and fantasizing my own, do you do the wildcamping side of things, or is it strictly sites with facilities ?. There is so much I want and need to learn about. What I am starting to learn though, is that there seems to be a growing hatred of Motorhomers out their, maybe more aimed at the Wildcamping aspect of motorhoming, also the legalities of it, and a lot more Councills clamping down. I wonder if its because of the growing popularity and sheer numbers causing a problem,what are your thoughts, have you had any bad experiences with the public?. Great chatting to you.
    Regards
        Graham

Four vans only because I started off with a 2002 Topaz, after 14 months changed to a 2003  Anniversary Clubman for more room, it was just me and my dog anyway, thought hubby would be interested he wasn`t, until after six years he decided he would like to come hence the 2003 Amethyst last December, of course soon realized not suitable to use as my car, love the van, ideal for when we all go, so two weeks ago got a Topaz to use as my car and for a day van. 

Not sites as such , I avoid the big ones, very often, I regular go to a CL in Norfolk, right on the beach, not commercialized, just a toilet, emptying points for tanks and fresh water, and EHU, miles of uninterrupted beach, lovely to hear the sea at night. 

When going to MH  shows, just toilets and emptying points plus fresh water tap. no EHU that is far as I have gone as for the wild camping bit. 

Scotland is on the cards that will be my first try at real wild camping. probably,  woouldn`t bother in England, plenty of places to go, I avoid school holidays, do go in the winter as well.to the beach,  Went Dec. last year, then Jan / Feb/ March, haven`t been away since too much on. getting vans sorted etc.

Have fun, the more you look at MH i found the more you learn and know what to look out for.try the beds to see if they are big enough for you. Imagine yourself living in one. 

I wish I had started MHing decades ago.

Best wishes,
Margaret

Hi Margaret,

Are you willing to pass on the site details in Norfolk? Sounds good for us and walking the dog. Just spent 4 weeks in the French Country side and miss the sea, although next week will be back on Hayling Island. Always wanted to go to Norfolk, but never made it!

Best Wishes,

Richard

daisy mae wrote:Four vans only because I started off with a 2002 Topaz, after 14 months changed to a 2003  Anniversary Clubman for more room, it was just me and my dog anyway, thought hubby would be interested he wasn`t, until after six years he decided he would like to come hence the 2003 Amethyst last December, of course soon realized not suitable to use as my car, love the van, ideal for when we all go, so two weeks ago got a Topaz to use as my car and for a day van. 

Not sites as such , I avoid the big ones, very often, I regular go to a CL in Norfolk, right on the beach, not commercialized, just a toilet, emptying points for tanks and fresh water, and EHU, miles of uninterrupted beach, lovely to hear the sea at night. 

• 
  

When going to MH  shows, just toilets and emptying points plus fresh water tap. no EHU that is far as I have gone as for the wild camping bit. 

Scotland is on the cards that will be my first try at real wild camping. probably,  woouldn`t bother in England, plenty of places to go, I avoid school holidays, do go in the winter as well.to the beach,  Went Dec. last year, then Jan / Feb/ March, haven`t been away since too much on. getting vans sorted etc.

Have fun, the more you look at MH i found the more you learn and know what to look out for.try the beds to see if they are big enough for you. Imagine yourself living in one. 

I wish I had started MHing decades ago.

Best wishes,
Margaret

"miles of uninterrupted beach, lovely to hear the sea at night."  Wow, that must be something else !!. When you mention Scotland I just go into Fantasyland, the Highlands, the Cairngorms, Galloway, it just sends my mind spinning. I am really into Astronomy and all things cosmological, those places where I could see the Stars and Milky Way in all their glory in an isolated dark sky, sends me into meltdown. Your words just make the aching so much worse. I am green with Envy for you. When I get my Symbol, I'm just going to point it to Scotland and let it run till the wheels fall off and burn
 Kind Regards
   Graham