water pumps left on or switched off?

by AutoSleepy_Don Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:45 pm

Campers with one of the latest AS Van conversions, do you leave your water pumps switched on overnight?
confused3

and if you switch it off, how long does it take to re-pressurise the system in the morning?
think_smiley_46

by PLOUGHLIN Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:53 pm

If it is functioning correctly, no reason to switch it off other than the light effect in a dark van.
If you switch it off and if it is functioning correctly, a matter of second to repressurise if at all.

by kaspian Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:23 pm

We always switch off overnight and if we leave van unattended during the day. Takes seconds to build up pressure on switch on . Always fear a leak developing overnight or when left unattended and wake / return to a floor awash ! Saw it happen a few years ago when a caravan on pitch next to us that was obviously unattended started to run the pump fed from an aquaroll with connection to site water tap . It would have filled the van until the owners returned if I had not unplugged the pump.
On their return to soaking carpets it was found that the connection to the water heater had popped off causing the leak. Knowing how shoddy some connections in our vans are I would not take the risk! CHECK especially the connection from pipe coming up through floor from the fresh water tank to the pressure switch. Ours was so tight to the floor that the release ring of the push fitting connector was depressed allowing any pressure from the pump to pop the connection.

by Gromit Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:35 pm

kaspian wrote:We always switch off overnight and if we leave van unattended during the day. Takes seconds to build up pressure on switch on . Always fear a leak developing overnight or when left unattended and wake / return to a floor awash !

Yes - same here and for the same reason.

There is also another possible problem. If you have an auto dump water valve and it lets go, your pump will start running as soon as the pressure drops, and it won't stop. As it's probably a submersible pump in the fresh water tank, it won't take long to fry itself as soon as it's running dry. A diaphragm pump would probably survive, but the nasty little submersibles don't like running dry at all!!

Then you have two fairly major problems!!

If the light bothers you at night, put a bit of insulating tape over it, or sleep with your eyes closed!! Whistle1

by AutoSleepy_Don Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:16 am

Thanks for the replies. This information is really useful in making my situation clear. up!

My old van re-pressurised in seconds but I wondered if there had been a change to the design.

In the new Warwick D, if I have the pump off for 12 hours, it is taking 1 minutes 50 seconds to get water through the kitchen hot tap. There is no obvious leak. I wonder if the water is feeding back into the fresh water tank somehow. Is there some kind of one way valve?
Once the pressure is back, the pump keeps coming on for 3 to 5 seconds every 20 to 40 seconds.

In any case there is an obvious fault that is easy to demonstrate so I'm sure the dealer will accept it under warranty. winks

by Paramedic Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:01 am

More recently have been switching the pump off at night as both light sleepers. It may only activate once during this period and be correctly maintaining pressure. When switched back on in the morning, the pump operates for about 4/5 seconds. That nagging thought of a drop in pressure due to a covert leak in the system never goes away. Now always switch off when away from van especially during winter months and ensuring heating is sufficient to prevent auto dumping.

by Maasai Warrior Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:21 am

Gromit wrote:the nasty little submersibles don't like running dry at all!!

Hi AutoSleepyDon! When you see your dealer, see if you can have your submersible pump replaced with a new ‘old faithful’ Shurflo pump. We had ours replaced by AS early this year as our submersible was playing up, we had to pay for it though, but well worth it. They let us keep the old pump from inside the freshwater tank and interestingly the jubilee clip connecting it to the water pipe was covered in rust, not something you like to have in your freshwater tank! Heaven knows why they didn’t use a stainless steel clip in construction!! confused3

Pete

by Kingham Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:24 am

I never switch mine off during the night and if the system ever did spring a leak, the noise of the pump running would wake me.

by kaspian Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:42 am

AutoSleepyDon wrote:Thanks for the replies. This information is really useful in making my situation clear.
My old van re-pressurised in seconds but I wondered if there had been a change to the design.

In the new Warwick D, if I have the pump off for 12 hours, it is taking 1 minutes 50 seconds to get water through the kitchen hot tap. There is no obvious leak. I wonder if the water is feeding back into the fresh water tank somehow. Is there some kind of one way valve?
Once the pressure is back, the pump keeps coming on for 3 to 5 seconds every 20 to 40 seconds.

In any case there is an obvious fault that is easy to demonstrate so I'm sure the dealer will accept it under warranty.

There should be a one way valve built into the inlet of the pressure regulator valve . It normally consusts of a small rubber flap held under spring tension. If this has dirt or grit stopping it sealing correctly the water will find its way back into the tank as the submersible pump allows flow either way. If you remove the pressure regulator valve it is easy to inspect and clean. If this is happening you should experience the pump running for a short time every few moments under normal running conditions with no demand ie taps closed. The system will repressurise to the cut off point after the static pressure drops as water leaks back into the tank.If the system is running for so long after 12 hours it sounds as if the hot water tank is emptying overnight. Perhaps also check for a leaky dump valve in the hot water heater ie drips underneath the van? If unsure let your dealer check as it will be under warranty still.

by kaspian Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:05 am

Wargenwolf wrote:I never switch mine off during the night and if the system ever did spring a leak, the noise of the pump running would wake me.

Each to their own and if you are a light sleeper great ! When looking for our current van we viewed 2 A/s vans , one a coachbuilt and one a van conversion with obvious historic damage due to water damage in kitchen floor area ie shrivelled wood effect paper foil , kitchen cabinet/ bedroom furniture swelled to bursting point and untold long term damage to unseen floor areas in vans under 3 years old. These were in dealers forecourts but just out of the miserable 2 year warranty at the time . I look on it as cheap insurance to switch off the pump overnight and when unattended . With our luck we would wake to a scene from Blue Planet! hugegrins

by Gromit Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:43 am

kaspian wrote:I look on it as cheap insurance to switch off the pump overnight and when unattended . With our luck we would wake to a scene from Blue Planet!

I would have to agree, and it's the work of a second to flick off the pump switch.

But why do I never remember to do it until I've just got into bed!!! shrugg

by Kingham Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:52 am

kaspian wrote:
Wargenwolf wrote:I never switch mine off during the night and if the system ever did spring a leak, the noise of the pump running would wake me.
........ I look on it as cheap insurance to switch off the pump overnight and when unattended . With our luck we would wake to a scene from Blue Planet!

I'm picturing that lol4

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by kaspian Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:04 am

Wargenwolf wrote:
kaspian wrote:
Wargenwolf wrote:I never switch mine off during the night and if the system ever did spring a leak, the noise of the pump running would wake me.
........ I look on it as cheap insurance to switch off the pump overnight and when unattended . With our luck we would wake to a scene from Blue Planet!

I'm picturing that

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Yes thats the one!

by Peter Brown Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:54 pm

kaspian wrote:
AutoSleepyDon wrote:Thanks for the replies. This information is really useful in making my situation clear.
My old van re-pressurised in seconds but I wondered if there had been a change to the design.

In the new Warwick D, if I have the pump off for 12 hours, it is taking 1 minutes 50 seconds to get water through the kitchen hot tap. There is no obvious leak. I wonder if the water is feeding back into the fresh water tank somehow. Is there some kind of one way valve?
Once the pressure is back, the pump keeps coming on for 3 to 5 seconds every 20 to 40 seconds.

In any case there is an obvious fault that is easy to demonstrate so I'm sure the dealer will accept it under warranty.
There should be a one way valve built into the inlet of the pressure regulator valve . It normally consusts of a small rubber flap held under spring tension. If this has dirt or grit stopping it sealing correctly the water will find its way back into the tank as the submersible pump allows flow either way. If you remove the pressure regulator valve it is easy to inspect and clean. If this is happening you should experience the pump running for a short time every few moments under normal running conditions with no demand ie taps closed. The system will repressurise to the cut off point after the static pressure drops as water leaks back into the tank.If the system is running for so long after 12 hours it sounds as if the hot water tank is emptying overnight. Perhaps also check for a leaky dump valve in the hot water heater ie drips underneath the van? If unsure let your dealer check as it will be under warranty still.

I totally agree with this analysis of the likely cause of the problem.

I personally always leave my pump on but can understand the logic of switching it off when not in use.

by rgermain Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:17 pm

There has been many reports on here about pumps.

Not knowing which pump you have, I would suspect it is a submerged one, I have the same problem with air or whatever and having to rapidly turn the pump off and on to get water to flow and stop the pump running.

I was advised to get it changed out for a Shurflo before the submerged one fails, which I have been told is only time.

Mark in the factory is well up on this as he has arranged for quite a number to be fitted, I am about to give him a call.

by AutoSleepy_Don Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:52 pm

kaspian wrote:
There should be a one way valve built into the inlet of the pressure regulator valve . It normally consists of a small rubber flap held under spring tension. If this has dirt or grit stopping it sealing correctly the water will find its way back into the tank as the submersible pump allows flow either way. If you remove the pressure regulator valve it is easy to inspect and clean.

Is this (in the 2 photos) the pressure regulator valve?
The knobbled wheel at the top is actually quite loose but there is no sign of a leak and no sign of dripping water under the van.
Now I know there is a non return valve then that is my favourite for the cause.
It is not easy to access so I will likely leave to the dealer. I do feel this strong urge to take it all apart myself but I really think I shouldn't smile!

.

water pumps left on or switched off? Img_1914

water pumps left on or switched off? Img_1913

by palette Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:59 pm

Yes, that's a pressure switch:
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by kaspian Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:23 pm

Yes the non return valve is on the inlet side of the pressure switch . Disconnect the electrical connector and remove the pipe from both ends ( push fit connectors) on the inlet side is a cover held by 2 screws from memory , the valve is under this .Easy when you remove the fixings into the floor and take to a table/workbench. Probably quicker to do than to write the instructions! There may be a small bit if grit/ blade of grass or dead fly etc causing the rubber seal to leak. If not sure or confident take it to your dealer.
I know there are many who would have you fit a diaphragm pump at substantial cost , upwards of £60 plus fitting and they are good pumps but there are literally thousands of these submersible pump systems in use by the leisure industry from caravans, motorhomes to boats and the vast majority seem to be working without issue as Whale confirmed they see very few problems being reported back by dealers.

by AutoSleepy_Don Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:59 pm

Are you saying a diaphragm pump does NOT need a non return valve? If it does then a new pump will not fix the problem.
The pressure switch seems quite inaccessible, it is buried under loads of pipes in a 17 Warwick Duo. I assume warranty repairs need to be done by the dealer rather than AS, so I will have to run the risk of the dealer making things worse, and get them to look at it.

by PLOUGHLIN Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:01 pm

I think the Shurflo pump has a built in pressure valve.

by inspiredron Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:45 am

I had a submersible pump in my previous Hymer for 11 years and the only incident was when the pipe came off it when Judy was in the shower and soaped! Luckily it was an under-seat tank with an access cap and could be quickly fixed. We have had the Lancashire for 6 seasons and I have no urge to change the pump. I do have to adjust the pressure switch once or twice each year but that is probably less of an issue than a microswitch failure on the Hymer taps. It's sad that A/S don't have a floor hatch for top access to the FW tank.
I never turn the pump off when the van is in use. When not in use it goes off automatically either because the engine has run or because I have switched off ALL habitation electrics with the EC328 master switch.

by AutoSleepy_Don Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:48 pm

PLOUGHLIN wrote:I think the Shurflo pump has a built in pressure valve.

Yes I think your correct. From the product page "built in check valve prevents back flow". The Shurflo does seem more heavy duty, able to run dry dry etc, and therefore better. Have AS changed to Whale submersible pumps to save cost? The difference is only about £25 Grrrrrrr peace

by biffobear Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:45 am

PLOUGHLIN wrote:I think the Shurflo pump has a built in pressure valve.

Shurflo pumps come in all shapes and sizes and are pre rated to run at a set pressure from 20 to over a 100psi. the one most of us have is the Trail King set at 20psi. Submersible pumps like Reich, Whale etc that the 'van industry use are capable of 1 to 1.5 bar about 14 to 21 lbs per square inch and usually fitted with a none return valve but sometimes come separately. The shurflo on my A/S has a switch on the control panel and I'm advised by the manual to switch off when not in use. The submersible in the other 'van is switched on and off by micro switches in the taps and only runs when water is required rather than using a pressure switch which I don't think is the best way of controlling a submersible pump although cheaper perhaps.

water pumps left on or switched off?

water pumps left on or switched off?

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