How stupid can you get!!!

There's quite a serious speeding problem on the main road through our village, and there have been petitions and complaints going to the Council and the police for several years.

Yesterday several locals turned out in their hi-viz jackets, one of whom had a radar speed gun to check and record the speed of the passing cars. Great news, you might think. Something may be done about it when they have a record of how how many drivers utterly disregard the speed limit.

So why did they first erect a large and very conspicuous sign at each end of the village saying, "Community Speed Monitoring"?? 

You couldn't write the script!! 

I have no faith that there are any limits to human stupidity but, in this case... if their scheme is being done with the permission of the local constabulary, is it possible that this is a condition of their permit - so that members of the public are in no doubt about whether they are interacting with the police, or "civilians"?

I can recall similar signage when a scheme like that operated in a village on the ratruns around here.

We have a couple of villages around here with 'community speed watch' signs erected. Very rare you actually see anyone with a speed gun.

-mojo- wrote:... if their scheme is being done with the permission of the local constabulary, is it possible that this is a condition of their permit - so that members of the public are in no doubt about whether they are interacting with the police, or "civilians"?

Quite possibly Mojo, but that doesn't make it any less stupid does it!!

Is there any point at all in checking for excessive speed when you have just pre-warned drivers to slow down. 

Why does it make any difference who they are interacting with?? If they hammer though a police speed trap they will get a ticket. If it's a civilian operated trap, they will get a written warning (perhaps). Why do they need to know in advance who is operating the trap??

The logic escapes me - assuming there is any!! Can you think of an explanation? 

It's cheaper and less hassle to put up a notice which causes people to slow down than it is to hire speed guns and spend your day sitting by the roadside using them. All you need is a couple of people, holding official looking speed devices, to pop out for a couple of hours or so at random times of the year just so that your regular offenders don't think the notice is fake. The notice you should keep there all the time.

There is a speed camera in a village that I used to go through on the way to work. It was said- by the villagers- to be the only one in Oxfordshire that is active 100% of the time. Very effective it is too. I don't think anyone exceeds the limit passing through that village.

If it is anything like my village you will find that the most speeders are, guess what, villagers.

Have you seen the news today about the numbers of speed cameras that are not operative.

We had a meeting where I used to live with police, councillor and highways team about excess speed in the 30mph area.
As a community we pointed out that some vehicles were doing 50-70mph, and frequently 40mph on the straight section.
We asked for a 20mph zone to try to encourage drivers to slow down.
We were told that the average speed of vehicles, as recorded by the highways team, was too fast for us to have a 20mph limit.
I still can't fathom out that comment!

If the speed limit of 30 mph is being exceeded by that amount a 20 mph limit would be pointless as virtually nobody would be obeying it without permanent monitoring by cameras etc. According to ROSPA 52% of motorists exceed the 30 mph limit and 84% the 20 mph limit. It appears that a limit will normally only be considered if 85% of vehicles travel at that speed - do a Google for an explanation.

Also Government policy is

"Successful 20 mph zones and 20 mph speed limits are generally self‐enforcing, i.e. the existing conditions of the road together with measures such as traffic calming or signing, publicity and information as part of the scheme, lead to a mean traffic speed compliant with the speed limit.
To achieve compliance there should be no expectation on the police to provide additional enforcement beyond their routine activity, unless this has been explicitly agreed."

When the community had speed cameras in the next village to us, there was no previous warning, admittedly that was a few years ago, has the procedure changed since then. ? seems stupid to me, but what do I know?

pstallwood wrote:If the speed limit of 30 mph is being exceeded by that amount a 20 mph limit would be pointless as virtually nobody would be obeying it without permanent monitoring by cameras etc. According to ROSPA 52% of motorists exceed the 30 mph limit and 84% the 20 mph limit. It appears that a limit will normally only be considered if 85% of vehicles travel at that speed - do a Google for an explanation.

Also Government policy is

"Successful 20 mph zones and 20 mph speed limits are generally self‐enforcing, i.e. the existing conditions of the road together with measures such as traffic calming or signing, publicity and information as part of the scheme, lead to a mean traffic speed compliant with the speed limit.
To achieve compliance there should be no expectation on the police to provide additional enforcement beyond their routine activity, unless this has been explicitly agreed."

Hi Peter,
Yes I accept that, but we were left with nothing. There was no agreement for any traffic calming measures, no increase in speed enforcement, just the status quo. In 2009 we lost our front hedge and fence to someone who lost control at speed, on a straight road! 
After 30 years in the police, including some speed enforcement work, I was disappointed and surprised at the response to our request as a community for help.
The road where I live now is deristricted 60mph, and at the brow of a hill with a junction. You can guess what speeds some drivers are doing.
Jollywalker

There was a petition for a crossing near us. The crossing would have allowed safer pedestrian access to the bus stop on the other side of the road from the shops and the school. TfL rejected the request as the average speed along that stretch of 30mph road was considered too high!

I THINK the reasoning is that if you slow people at one place they then drive faster elsewhere to make up the time they have lost.

A local village, Muston, has a scarecrow festival each year. One of the villagers made a policeman with a speed radar gun with high viz etc. and sited it at the village boundary pointing at the traffic entering the village. I've never seen so many bright brake lights 

That's the way to do it 

Hubert

Our street has a twenty limit but is a rat run, we also were told that over 85% had to speed before any measures would be taken, even then speed bumps would be ruled out as the local bus company threatens to pull from the route.

Gromit wrote:There's quite a serious speeding problem on the main road through our village, and there have been petitions and complaints going to the Council and the police for several years.

Yesterday several locals turned out in their hi-viz jackets, one of whom had a radar speed gun to check and record the speed of the passing cars. Great news, you might think. Something may be done about it when they have a record of how how many drivers utterly disregard the speed limit.

So why did they first erect a large and very conspicuous sign at each end of the village saying, "Community Speed Monitoring"?? 

You couldn't write the script!! 

Quite simply Dave because the purpose of community speedwatch is to EDUCATE and perhaps remind motorists they should be obeying the 30 limit not catching them for not doing so.

I have been a member of the local speedwatch group for nearly three years and it has been a real education. I joined because there were no less than five deaths in a very short period prior to my joining on the A39 and roads around our village and I felt something had to be done.

The standard of driving I have seen is almost unbelievable bordering on farcical from some people. The public love us or hate us, the group has been threatened with physical abuse, some give a blast on the air horns to make us jump and the boy racers love to drop down a few cogs and give the exhaust a good crackle as they pass....none of it has any effect, been there got the T shirt. On the other hand others stopped to thank us and even offered cups of tea! Hands are of course another subject waving or making other suggestions!

Speeding vehicles are recorded (make,model,registration,time,speed,colour) and the driver will receive a letter from the Police advising they should take more care. Second strike for the same vehicle and you get another letter. Third strike and a policeman knocks on your door to formally advise you the error of your ways but not to prosecute.

The camera is calibrated every time out and checked by at least two people, it can see you long before you can see it, no good slowing down at the last minute! first time I used it I was shocked it can see vehicles approaching round corners that the naked eye cannot!

The irony of me doing this is I was clocked on the M23 some years ago in Lady G's Porsche at 105mph ( prosecuted at 97) and love driving fast, however, I am a fervent believer this has to be in the right place!

Hope that explains why the signs are there and please to anyone driving through the 30 limit by the Norway Inn on the A39 at Perranarworthal at more than 30mph, you might come across a group of old fuddies with a camera!

The bottom line is it HAS worked and traffic speed over three years monitoring in our village has decreased so there has been some benefit to hours on the side of the road with a hairdryer after all.

I will be gone soon and may be gone some time........

In relation to the OPs question, very I think. Around here they use a mobile unit to do speed checks, always the same places with prominent signage to inform the unwary of what's ahead. Despite that, they gather lots of money from drivers going over the 30mph limit.

We also have lots of roads with traffic calming installed to deter the folk using them as "rat runs" and to slow those who do down. Humps mini-roundabouts and chicanes provide a bit of additional fun (as drivers see how fast they can go through them) and the bits deliberately narrowed with alternating traffic priority has the effect of producing regular driver confrontations. 

Sadly I've come to the conclusion that with speeding, like drinking and driving and driving using mobile phones, some drivers will never get the message.

groundhog wrote:On the other hand others stopped to thank us and even offered cups of tea!

Should they really be brewing tea while driving, making good tea is an art form and not to be lightly disrespected?

OK if you drive a Hymer Chris the butler can make it on the move and anyway they make far better tea than us other mere mortals..

groundhog wrote:OK if you drive a Hymer Chris the butler can make it on the move and anyway they make far better tea than us other mere mortals..

No need to stoop as low as a Hymer - just set the cruise control like the (probably apocryphal) American is supposed to have done ! 

I’m a sucker for the light up displays that show you your speed. I especially like the local ones which have smiley and sad faces. I do like to get a smiley face and would be mortified if I had a sad one.

Quilter wrote:I’m a sucker for the light up displays that show you your speed. I especially like the local ones which have smiley and sad faces. I do like to get a smiley face and would be mortified if I had a sad one.

Me too. I personally think these have more effect than speed cameras.

A few years ago I read a website discussing  community speed monitoring - can't find it now. One contributor had received a letter accusing him of speeding - it had been assumed that the owner of the vehicle had been driving. He threatened action as he believed he was being libelled and eventually got an apology.

pstallwood wrote:A few years ago I read a website discussing  community speed monitoring - can't find it now. One contributor had received a letter accusing him of speeding - it had been assumed that the owner of the vehicle had been driving. He threatened action as he believed he was being libelled and eventually got an apology.

Hmmm I find the content of that story very hard to believe.

The standard speedwatch letter makes reference only to the make, model, colour, speed and time of recording, it makes no reference to the driver although sent to the registered owner of the vehicle. The recording can never be used as evidence for prosecution since there is no way of knowing who the driver is. Even when the Police are present at speedwatch I have never seen a vehicle stopped to check that fact. As I said above it is about education not "catching people speeding" on an ideal day we would log nothing as our aim would have been achieved!

The fastest I have ever logged a vehicle in a 30 limit is 62 although on one outing a team recoded a motorbike at over 90.... or rather they didn't, it was going so fast they never got the make and model! No one, in our area anyway, is logged unless doing at least 34mph, though other areas may differ.

A teaser.....

Over the last three years I have probably monitored close to twenty thousand vehicles. Guess which make of vehicle is without a shadow of doubt the most likely to be speeding? The question is not scientific as obviously there are more Fords on the road than Lexus for instance  and no prizes for the answer.

VW?

Vauxhall, probably the Corsa

I was thinking, anything that a 'yoof' or 'yoofess' can afford to insure.

Though maybe it'll be a Chelsea Tractor with a school run Mum driving?