Re: Merc Sprinter Seat Upgrade &Rear Suspension

by PLOUGHLIN Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:52 pm

big'nuf wrote:Thank you Liam, I will check all this out as you suggest.
Incidentally I have the air assist fitted....the Merc technician recommends driving with no air at all as he says the air bags would make it wallow more and harden the ride even more?.....didn't
make sense to me?

Do you have the Build spec for your MB Chassis, giving the option codes fitted? This Equipment handbook explains what the options are and where/why they are fitted for a particula use ie high CoG for a motorhome.

http://www.sprinter-rv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2011-Sprinter-Special-Equipment-Book-Part-1-of-2.pdf

If you don't have the build spec, pop your VIN into this site and get the build spec. http://carinfo.kiev.ua/cars/vin/mercedes

by big'nuf Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:39 am

Liam....and anyone else who can help?

I have put my vin number into the suggested website http://carinfo.kiev.ua/cars/vin/mercedes) and although it produces a very helpful build list - I cannot find any details on rear leaf springs?

Les

by Jaytee Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:13 am

Rear springs aaaaaaaaaargh Whistle1

. As others will remember I had awful hassle when my springs broke. I was sure they were not up to spec for the weight and it was like driving on solid rubber tyres. To avoid the possibility of serious health issues hugegrins

trying to sort it out with both Mercedes and AS I just gave up.
Mine has the C33 single springs which are designed to be used at gross axle weight and are harder to reduce roll.
To reduce the harsh ride I do vary the tyre pressures according to my estimated gross weight using the figures in the MB manual and that has improved things quite considerably. Roll is a difficult one to compare as I have only driven double decker buses, coaches and of course my old Defender. But it doesn't seem bad at all. And like Peter I don't hang around. The screaming from the pax seat during overtakes cancels out thoughts of roll hugegrins

.
Does sound like something is not right with yours, shame you are not closer and you could give mine a drive as a comparison.

by Liam Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:02 am

big'nuf wrote:Liam....and anyone else who can help?

I have put my vin number into the suggested website http://carinfo.kiev.ua/cars/vin/mercedes) and although it produces a very helpful build list - I cannot find any details on rear leaf springs?

Les

Les,
Yes, it is a mine field and requires some digging - but under the "Code / Description" you should find some numbers with a letter prefix followed by a description i.e. in my case C33 Rear Springs Harder - which is the MB description of the rear leaf spring that is fitted to my chassis. This is where your MB dealer should be able to identify and advise you as to the actual rear axle assembly that has been fitted to your vehicle - see example below.

Re the air bags - I would not run them with no air as you will likely destroy them - I run ours at just over 2bar which provides sufficient rigidity without being too harsh over rough surfaces and it gets rid of all the rock and roll.

Out of interest and it might help you to get your head around the topic, below is a copy of the information I received from AS when I queried my suspension configuration;-

Liam,

The sales team have told me that the chassis we order in for conversion have the following 1. C33- Uprated rear springs 2. C43- Uprated rear axle stabiliser 3. C45- Uprated front axle stabiliser 4. CE6- Suspension stability. These are the only differences regarding the chassis so I hope it is of use.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Peter Kingsnorth
Homologation Engineer
Auto-Sleepers

Note to Admin. I realize that this thread has now gone slightly off the original title/topic which related to seat comfort and whilst still related it has now drifted onto the actual suspension - would it be worth amending the title by adding "and suspension" - to correctly reflect the content as now is?

Cheers,
Liam

by PLOUGHLIN Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:19 am

According to the option parts link in my previous post, C33 option is described as

Two-leaf springs with a steeper spring rate curve than the standard springs.
Not the single spring actually fitted, which is option C38. confused3

by Jaytee Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:31 am

Hi Peter, I did quite a bit of research on this and Liam may remember as I can't but I think there was a C33 single spring at some point as I did query this wth MB mine being single with the C33 spec. At the time of the spring replacement they did say they had ordered my vehicle spec and single arrived. Would be good to suss if they are actualy incorrect and should have been two leafers scratch head

. Not sure I wuld get anywhere now though being out of warranty.

by Liam Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:38 am

Peter,
Mine is physically as described above - i.e. a single spring - and the Vin details for mine is as;-
C33 - Rear Spring Harder (note Spring is singular!!)
I think MB may have changed the suspension design since that 2011 options list.
liam

by big'nuf Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:50 am

Hi, Just spoken to Jamie at Mercedes Commercial in Gloucester, (head technician lol).
He told me my spring is a single spring with a helper spring added.
He said this is what all vehicles up to 3.5T will be fitted with and is the correct one...who am I to argue? lol

The CARinfo states;
C33 REAR SPRING, HARDER

Is that all correct then?

by Liam Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:55 am

Les,
Check with AS as to what they specified when they ordered your chassis - there are different specs for different chassis sizes - long wb and short wb under 3.5t and over 3.5t - so lote of combinations.
Liam

by Jaytee Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:14 am

big'nuf wrote:Hi, Just spoken to Jamie at Mercedes Commercial in Gloucester, (head technician lol).
He told me my spring is a single spring with a helper spring added.
He said this is what all vehicles up to 3.5T will be fitted with and is the correct one...who am I to argue? lol

The CARinfo states;
C33 REAR SPRING, HARDER

Is that all correct then?

No no noooooo, this has got me back on springs again Whistle1

If the Stanton has the C33 with a helper srping and grosses out at 3200kg, why hasn't ours Liam got them at 3880 gross? The bump stops on the rear axle on mine are only about an inch from the chassis when at about 3700Kg.

by PLOUGHLIN Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:21 am

Liam wrote:Peter,
Mine is physically as described above - i.e. a single spring - and the Vin details for mine is as;-
C33 - Rear Spring Harder (note Spring is singular!!)
I think MB may have changed the suspension design since that 2011 options list.
liam

The 2016 Option list still quotes C33 as dual springs?

http://www.sprinter-rv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/sprinter-equipment-handbook-my2016.pdf

by big'nuf Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:01 pm

Just called AS...They say they have no way of telling what springs are on the chassis as they have nothing to do with the chassis and do not touch them? They say that Mercedes supply the chassis with the springs on and they just build their van onto it?....
They also told me that if it has a towbar fitted, it would cause the wallowing?....

by big'nuf Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:11 pm

If I let the air out of the airbags (as suggested by the Merc tech), the gap to my bump stops are less than 1/2 an inch?!
I can charge the air to 2 bar which increases the gap to about 2 1/2 inches?....
Which would you want to drive with?.....

by Jaytee Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:23 pm

Perhaps split the difference, say 1 1/2 inches and see what it's like?

I have contacted MB main dealer who changed my broken springs to check why single leaf supplied when the manual states dual leaf.

by Liam Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:25 pm

PLOUGHLIN wrote:
Liam wrote:Peter,
Mine is physically as described above - i.e. a single spring - and the Vin details for mine is as;-
C33 - Rear Spring Harder (note Spring is singular!!)
I think MB may have changed the suspension design since that 2011 options list.
liam

The 2016 Option list still quotes C33 as dual springs?

http://www.sprinter-rv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/sprinter-equipment-handbook-my2016.pdf

Peter,
Thanks for the latest eqpt. MB handbook its always handy for reference.
But I must be missing something - On page 4 it still quotes C33 as Firmer Rear Springs and that is what is shown on my Vin build details.
However, Rear Springs Dual is shown as C39 - which is not on my Vin build.
I believe the suspension package AS ordered for the heavier chassis, such as mine, is under the code of XL8 for a GVWR of 8500ibs - which I believe includes C33, C43 and CF5.
Liam

by Jaytee Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:33 pm

Page 77 defines C33 Liam. Wish I hadn't got back onto springs tap_fingers

by Liam Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:38 pm

big'nuf wrote:Just called AS...They say they have no way of telling what springs are on the chassis as they have nothing to do with the chassis and do not touch them? They say that Mercedes supply the chassis with the springs on and they just build their van onto it?....
They also told me that if it has a towbar fitted, it would cause the wallowing?....

Les,
This is what I have said - its their design department that dictates the requirement - its ordered to that standard by sales department and the assumption is that what arrives in their compound is the correct item - production then build the Habitation area and deliver the finished product.
I recall a member of this forum has reported that he took delivery of his motor-home which had a severe case of soggy bottom and with which he was unhappy.
And it was only after his long perseverance and instance that it was finally discovered that the wrong rear suspension had been fitted by MB at build!
I don't recall the final what the final outcome was - but obviously he reached some sort of a compromise with all of those involved - so MB are not always correct!!
Liam

by Peter Brown Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:47 pm

Maybe he sold the soggy bottom to.........

by Liam Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:48 pm

Jaytee wrote:Page 77 defines C33 Liam. Wish I hadn't got back onto springs

Thanks John for pointing me in the right direction,
What is it about rear suspension that gets us hot under the collar?
Anyway, like yours mine is a single rear spring and I have to report that with the fitting of the semi air suspension it has ironed out all of the "loose dental" problems Merc Sprinter Seat Upgrade &Rear Suspension - Page 2 1819939118

Merc Sprinter Seat Upgrade &Rear Suspension - Page 2 1819939118

Hope all is well up in Filey.
Liam

by Liam Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:53 pm

Peter Brown wrote:Maybe he sold the soggy bottom to.........

Not sure it was the same model - but it might be the reason it was moved on at only 5000 miles!
Liam

by PLOUGHLIN Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:02 pm

Jaytee wrote:Page 77 defines C33 Liam. Wish I hadn't got back onto springs

C33- Installation of dual leaf springs which feature a steeper spring characteristic curve than
standard springs. They are stiffer.

by Liam Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:07 pm

Found it! - I have previously referred to the case of the incorrect suspension that was fitted to AS motor home and was only discovered and acknowledged following the long perseverance and persistence by the new owner - - https://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t15881-mercedes-rear-suspension#128884
so if in doubt keep checking it out - Friday vehicles are still been produced!
Liam

by Peter Brown Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:38 pm

Mercedes recommend a package of; C33 Rear Springs harder, CF5 Suspension - High Centre of Gravity and CF6 Springs and dampers, front, reinforced for Chassis Cab destined for conversion to RV's and all vehicles with high centre of gravity.

I have that package and my rear springs are single leaf.

Mercedes do publish a description of the C33 as being a "two-leaf springs" but I think the hyphen is a mistake and it should read "two leaf springs"

by PLOUGHLIN Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:50 pm

Peter #1, You are probably right. Why can't these Germans learn proper English. hugegrins

by big'nuf Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:37 pm

How do I find out what the wheelbase is for my Stanton?
What brakes are fitted? front and rear, drum or disc?
Suspension type?

On the SVTech form, does axle 1 mean the front wheels, or as in rear wheels?