Maiden voyage woes

Just spent our first long weekend away at Tayview caravan park just north of Dundee. We were lucky with the weather and the site is good but van started playing up on arrival. Wing aerial on roof was useless at picking up tv signal as expected with an omni directional  design which looks nice but performs poorly. Why a supposed quality company uses an aerial that only picks up a signal where a wet finger stuck in the socket would pick up as much signal frustrates me .  Last October our Status 570 directional on our coachbuilt  picked up over 80 channels in the same spot but the good old wing picks up 7 channels and not very well!
          Next problem was water. System was primed and filled before travel and on arrival switched on pump only for it to run continuously with no water from taps. System was pressurised as I got a stream of water from tap initially for about 5 seconds then nothing . My Kemerton has the useless whale pump in the tank and I was reluctant to crawl underneath and start dropping the tank to check but fiddled with the system for over an hour to no avail.
          Cant see how a submersed pump can be air locked but wonder if there is a one way valve somewhere in the system that stops water returning to tank through the pump when switched off. If this was sticking it could be the reason for the above. After sitting for 6 hours my wife tried the tap and it started up as normal and continued to work ok all night. Sunday saw us out for the day covering 60 miles and on return the same happened on switching on the pump. Water for 5 seconds using up the water stored under pressure then nothing. Spent the day, night boiling kettles to wash dishes etc - in what is a 50k plus van .... This morning tried again and it worked first time. Will call Autosleepers tomorrow to get rundown of the system as from what you read on this forum it is clearly not fit for purpose at present..
            Lastly , air suspension was set at 1.8 bar each unit but on arrival home van was listing badly to passenger side. Guages showed left unit at 0.5bar and right at 3 bar. After reversing into driveway  van levelled off ok and both read 1.8bar. They must obviously be interconnected by pipework but why have 2 separate guages if the air is on a common pipework  circuit? Another question for the factory... 
            Having no tv signal and having to use a gallon water bottle and boil kettles for water did not spoil our weekend and we love the layout of the van  but with   3 motorhomes and 3 caravans before our Auto sleeper, they  never gave any problems with water systems etc and all I remember was arrive at site, fill tank, bleed system, hot/ cold , ENJOY!  (   not waste 2 hours bleeding system faffing about trying to get water from a tap..) Never mind it will be all be fixed before next trip out......with a 2lb hammer!

That will be a brand new one then, just spent the weekend with someone on a first trip in a new Hymer stable van....he spent most of the time screwing bits back on that as well! Never mind you just know in a few trips time it will be perfect

You are not alone in having problems with the submersible pump. Mine failed twice on my Warwick.....the second time  at the start of a four week holiday in France. The dealer offered to replace it with an external pump. It was under guarantee so assume AS agreed to it. Bit noisier but I can live with that, particularly as it works!

groundhog wrote:That will be a brand new one then, just spent the weekend with someone on a first trip in a new Hymer stable van....he spent most of the time screwing bits back on that as well! Never mind you just know in a few trips time it will be perfect

Shouldn't laugh......but i did! It reminded me of a chap i used to work with who had engine problems with his car and the estimate for a service exchange was too much. "No problem Geoff....i'll sort you that out with a rebuild" came the response from the shift mechanical whizz kid. 

Against all advice Geoff let the guy have his car. A couple of weeks later the car was "fixed"......"complete rebuild".
Whizz kid hands Geoff his keys plus a carrier bag of various nuts and bolts. "What are those for" asked Geoff. Whizz kid replied, "they were left over....you don't need them"!!   

Bobskate wrote:You are not alone in having problems with the submersible pump. Mine failed twice on my Warwick.....the second time  at the start of a four week holiday in France.

That's what concerns me about the daft system Bob.

Mr Sod (he of the infamous "Law") is always waiting to strike at the most inopportune moment.

It's not the cost of a new pump that bothers me, but the very awkward and time consuming process of dropping the water tank to replace it. A diaphragm pump is the obvious preference - at least you can get at it if it goes wrong, and replacing it would take only a few minutes.

You really have to wonder why motorhome builders (not just A/S) go for such complicated and expensive systems, when the long standing and well tried alternative works so well. Specially when they "penny pinch" on so many other small, but important items!!!

Dave

As I have repeated over and over forget dropping the tank, invest in a hatch (not that expensive) and you can then change the pump, clean the terminals on the gauge, wash  the tank out etc in a matter of a few minutes...

Good thinking Hog, but don't you have to drop the tank to fit a hatch??

Don't know - hadn't thought of it before.

Dave

kaspian wrote:
            Lastly , air suspension was set at 1.8 bar each unit but on arrival home van was listing badly to passenger side. Guages showed left unit at 0.5bar and right at 3 bar. After reversing into driveway  van levelled off ok and both read 1.8bar. They must obviously be interconnected by pipework but why have 2 separate guages if the air is on a common pipework  circuit? Another question for the factory... 
           

The pressures for the assist system must be set on level ground. If the van is on any kind of slope side to side, then the pressures will read differently. My van is set to 1.5 bar on the level, but at home (on a sloping path) they read 1 and 2 bar.

Hi Gromit and kaspian... re fitting a hatch, to answer Gromit's question Marquis fitted mine as the pump was broken and it was easier than dropping the tank, they did it in situ and just cut a hole in it! I guess it would depend on your model of van, some may be more difficult than the Worcester/Winchcombe to get at.

Thanks Hog.

I presume they fitted it in the bottom of the tank. There's no access to the top from inside the Hab area on our van.

Dave

Bobskate wrote:You are not alone in having problems with the submersible pump. Mine failed twice on my Warwick.....the second time  at the start of a four week holiday in France. The dealer offered to replace it with an external pump. It was under guarantee so assume AS agreed to it. Bit noisier but I can live with that, particularly as it works!

Hi, I also have a 2015 Warwick Duo and off to France next week for 4 weeks, so far so good with the submersible pump. Can you let me know where they fitted the external pump please, so when my fails I will be prepared. I have not used it much yet, only 500mls on the clock!, so fingers crossed.

Richard

Under the seat/bed on the offside against the side of the cupboard. In truth you can hardly see it. You might be lucky I really hope you are.
Enjoy France....motorhome friendly. Where are you going? Seeing where you live did you buy your van from Dolphin?

Bobskate wrote:Under the seat/bed on the offside against the side of the cupboard. In truth you can hardly see it. You might be lucky I really hope you are.
Enjoy France....motorhome friendly. Where are you going? Seeing where you live did you buy your van from Dolphin?

Thanks, let's hope I don't require one just yet.

I did buy it from Dolphin, no problems so far, just took a while to get used to the Truma control unit on out recent 4 night try it out trip to Wareham Forrest camp site.

Have had to take it back to Peugeot for the instrument panel to be changed due to various warning lights glowing dim, seems to have fixed it at the moment, while there they said it had a recall for the ignition switch requiring a new one.

Mine is a 2015 build and was 1st reg Jan 2016 with 50 miles showing, I suppose an ex demo/show model.

We are off on Tuesday via Eurotunnel making our way to Provence and staying at Mas du Nicolas in St Remy and then moving towards the Grenoble area later. We have over night stops at Reims and Beaune sites both ways as I find that's about my limit of driving these days, also the dog gets fed up not playing with his ball after a while.

I do miss our T5 Topaz, but this van has more room and storage.

Just hoping we have enough onboard LPG for our trip.

Richard

Bobskate wrote:Under the seat/bed on the offside against the side of the cupboard. In truth you can hardly see it. You might be lucky I really hope you are.
Enjoy France....motorhome friendly. Where are you going? Seeing where you live did you buy your van from Dolphin?

Forgot to say, seeing your picture of XH558, we saw it at Headcorn last summer, it was a great display, one we will not forget, the dog also remembers it. What a plane.

Unfortunately our Kemerton is a van conversion and would need a hole cut blind through the ply floor and the metal van floor to install an access hatch and the tank seems to be below the electrics/charger so not very practical. Factory told me today to just reach up from below and open the hatch in the tank and remove pump to check without dropping tank but on checking our tank is strapped tightly to the floor with no access- so much for their advice.
         Contrary to their belief there is a one way valve built into the input end of the whale pressure switch and 2 screws removed it.Looked ok but on reassembly water pumped through first time and has worked every time so far. Im still not convinced it is repaired but factory bod told me pump is not fixed to inside of tank and just flails about hanging from power cable and hose when driving and tank empty or probably just as bad partially filled being thrown about as water surges around the tank whilst driving.
so perhaps this does the pump a power of good. not.....Possibly a cause of so many failures. Would have expected the pump to be fixed in a vertical position with inlet near tank bottom at least. 38 years caravanning and motorhoming and never had a whale pump fail in normal use when used in an aquaroll situation.
           I did not know that pressures varied so much with air suspension.They were set on level ground but there was some camber on the street outside. One doughnut was collapsed with secondary spring sitting on stops of main leaf spring ,the other side fully extended. Had not noticed this before but on driving into driveway pressures returned to normal and van is level so must be OK.

Fabulous plane. That was taken at the Eastbourne Airshow last year. I read the book 'Vulcan Test Pilot' by Tony Blackman. A really good read......will make your hair stand on hand when he recounts their very rudimentary test methods.
Dolphin were OK putting the things right. No quibbling. Obviously not what you want to happen but it's not unusual.

We went to the Alps region of France last year, no probs with the gas because it was so hot, and to be fair most of the sites had electricity.

kaspian wrote:Unfortunately our Kemerton is a van conversion and would need a hole cut blind through the ply floor and the metal van floor to install an access hatch and the tank seems to be below the electrics/charger so not very practical. Factory told me today to just reach up from below and open the hatch in the tank and remove pump to check without dropping tank but on checking our tank is strapped tightly to the floor with no access- so much for their advice.
         Contrary to their belief there is a one way valve built into the input end of the whale pressure switch and 2 screws removed it.Looked ok but on reassembly water pumped through first time and has worked every time so far. Im still not convinced it is repaired but factory bod told me pump is not fixed to inside of tank and just flails about hanging from power cable and hose when driving and tank empty or probably just as bad partially filled being thrown about as water surges around the tank whilst driving.
so perhaps this does the pump a power of good. not.....Possibly a cause of so many failures. Would have expected the pump to be fixed in a vertical position with inlet near tank bottom at least. 38 years caravanning and motorhoming and never had a whale pump fail in normal use when used in an aquaroll situation.
           I did not know that pressures varied so much with air suspension.They were set on level ground but there was some camber on the street outside. One doughnut was collapsed with secondary spring sitting on stops of main leaf spring ,the other side fully extended. Had not noticed this before but on driving into driveway pressures returned to normal and van is level so must be OK.

We had a caravan with an on board tank and that also had a submersible pump dangling loose inside. It failed at ten years old but replaced it by accessing through a hatch in the caravan floor, it was really easy.

Hi Paul, If only it lasted 10 years in my van I would be dancing in the street along with many others on this forum whose pump has failed more than once in 2 years ! Unfortunately there is no easy access to swap out..

The pump in a Thetford toilet tank is free hanging on the end of some hose with a power supply cable attached to it in it's tank. It seems to be accepted practice.

Hi Andy , I  had to replace the pump in toilet of our swift oronsay and it was clipped into a bracket at the bottom of the tank and from the shape of the tank had very little scope for movement if loose anyway . Would love to see a cut away drawing of my actual tank as the connection of water inlet is actually within the hole in floor of van so cannot physically access to disconnect and as my van has winter heater kit with full insulation on all pipework externally this will require to be stripped off to access joints to remove tank.

Sorry I should've specified C250/260 Thetford which are the latest swivel versions and to my mind not a patch on their predecessors for design and build quality. They seem designed to minimise cost and weight, rather than for excellence and sturdiness in use like the C200 and the bench types.

you are right Andy, everything seems built to a cost and to a standard that looks good in a showroom but does not stand up to even careful use nowadays.For what they charge I honestly dont see that value in the product any more

kaspian wrote:built to a standard that looks good in a showroom

I spent some time with a Thetford engineer last weekend and he made that exact point.  Across their whole product range Thetford would like to make products that are simple and reliable but they have to make what the caravan manufacturers want to buy - something that looks flashy at the shows and in the showroom.

It won't spoil your holiday if you have no water system.I had a tap give up the ghost first day away last summer,,,could not shut flow off whilst pressure in the tank.We drained tank,kept pump switched off and managed with 5 litre water containers and a jug..Used kettle for hot water...Still had a good time touring France Spain and Portugal for 9 weeks. BUSBY65.

busby65 wrote:It won't spoil your holiday if you have no water system. I had a tap give up the ghost first day away last summer

You have to admire Mr Sod don't you. He never misses a trick!

Dave