Winter and Symbol/Duetto

Hi everyone! I know there have been a lot of posts here on how to winterise your Symbol or Duetto, as I have been reading them all with interest, so I hope this isn't going over the same ground. Having read about how you should drain the water system for fear of it freezing and causing damage, it has left me wondering if it is worth buying a van like this, if I can't use the shower/hot water/etc over winter? To add context, I'm always up in Scotland at weekends and so was planning on keeping the van up there, but it won't get used during the week when I am down South. I climb mountains and want to park up at the bottom of hill, wild camping, so the bathroom was a major factor in wanting a Symbol or Duetto. From what I've read, the van would probably survive Scottish winter when actually in use as the heating would be on, but I'd need to drain it to leave unused during the week..... I've also read that draining it isn't the easiest thing to do, so doing this every Friday night during winter doesn't sound feasible. Hoping all your experienced people will be able to advise!!

Hi, best bet is to drain the system and use water containers, just heat the water you need in a kettle. Make sure you have enough gas. Winterizing is easy enough, i will do mine over the next couple of weeks, but still use all through the winter.

Dave

IMHO unless you are able to leave your van connected to the mains and have some sort of frost protection in place while you are back in the capital, you are going to have the same problem with most vans during the winter.

It's not really a chore to drain down at the end of every weekend and refill on your return, if doing so protects your investment, it has to be worth the effort.

I use mine all the year, they are meant to be used and are better for it, if you have ever been tenting you will realise a van is sheer luxury, I can manage with water in containers, not using the under slung water tank if necessary, no hardship.

Thanks for the replies. Wargenwolf, very happy to hear that it is not too difficult to drain the system. I thought I'd read something about needing to access the pump and it was impossibly placed behind the fridge? If that's not the case then that is reassuring! Daisymae, yes I'm usually camping (or bothying) so rather excited about the luxury of a van!

Can I just clarify then, if I am IN the van (but without a hookup) can I heat it enough to stop overnight freezing? Or is it just safer to drain it through the whole of winter?

I keep mine drained down for the winter, get by with the containers.

Apart from the anti-freeze issues, you will also have to consider battery maintenance. Heating of any form will require electrical power and, if you are keeping the van up north, you may not have sufficient mileage to adequately charge the batteries. To add to your problems, they will not be performing at their optimum level due to low temperatures.
Have you considered hiring in Scotland instead of purchase !

Rum truffle wrote:Thanks for the replies. Wargenwolf, very happy to hear that it is not too difficult to drain the system. I thought I'd read something about needing to access the pump and it was impossibly placed behind the fridge? If that's not the case then that is reassuring! Daisymae, yes I'm usually camping (or bothying) so rather excited about the luxury of a van!

Can I just clarify then, if I am IN the van (but without a hookup) can I heat it enough to stop overnight freezing? Or is it just safer to drain it through the whole of winter?

How long is a piece of string. It depends on temperature and time.
Best to drain ,its easy, and use internal water. However if you are visiting weekly a check on the likely weather could allow you to just leave the van without draining.
Without heating my van last winter it never got below freezing inside.
Some of the water system is outside .

Hope this helps


Micky

Rum truffle wrote:Thanks for the replies. Wargenwolf, very happy to hear that it is not too difficult to drain the system. I thought I'd read something about needing to access the pump and it was impossibly placed behind the fridge? If that's not the case then that is reassuring! Daisymae, yes I'm usually camping (or bothying) so rather excited about the luxury of a van!

Can I just clarify then, if I am IN the van (but without a hookup) can I heat it enough to stop overnight freezing? Or is it just safer to drain it through the whole of winter?

 I believe there is a device that can be fixed onto the water tank under the van that will prevent the tank from freezing. It will require power all the time of course. But it would still leave the pipe work exposed to frost risk.

Rum truffle wrote:From what I've read, the van would probably survive Scottish winter when actually in use as the heating would be on, but I'd need to drain it to leave unused during the week..... I've also read that draining it isn't the easiest thing to do, so doing this every Friday night during winter doesn't sound feasible. Hoping all your experienced people will be able to advise!!

Draining off is simple. Open the tap to the fresh water tank and let it drain. Whilst that's draining, unscrew the drain valve to the Carver heater (can't miss it as there's only one!). Once empty, power on the pump and open the sink tap to let out whatever is left. Do the same with the shower/sink.

Finally, empty any water from the waste tank, close up both taps (waste and fresh tanks) but LEAVE ALL INTERNAL TAPS OPEN. I also remove the shower head from mine as they are plastic....and crazily overpriced for new. By leaving the inside taps open it avoids any possibility of a burst.

You might want to check out the hab area heating systems on your future van,
My 59 Symbol had a Eberspacher diesel fuelled heater  fitted and I found it totally inadequate to heat up the van from cold, fortunately I didn't have to spend the winter nights in it.
It used up most of the hab battery in less than 4 hours, if your thinking of stopping overnight in either van I would maybe consider a small Jenny to top up the batteries.
I exchanged my van to a coachbuilt Nuevo and found the Traumatic gas heating system cosy and warm during the winter months.
We take bottled water, for us and our dog.

Boaby

burlingtonboaby wrote:You might want to check out the hab area heating systems on your future van,
My 59 Symbol had a Eberspacher diesel fuelled heater  fitted and I found it totally inadequate to heat up the van from cold, fortunately I didn't have to spend the winter nights in it.

I had a diesel heater in my first van, can't remember the make but it wasn't Eberspacher, but my experience of that was the absolute opposite of yours! Mine heated the van up within minutes and i only ever had it on full for a bit before turning it down to half way. Always used to love watching the puzzled looks on folks faces whenever i fired it up......sounded just like a jet engine starting! 

I can only comment on my experience with my van during a very cold winters up in the highlands. At minus 18, in a frost pocket .
It was so cold the council couldn't break ground in the cemetery in Killin for two weeks.
Hab battery life has to been taken into consideration when out in these cold conditions, if your not on EHU, hab batteries will run low within hours and stop the Eberspacher from running.
Boaby

P.s Bulletguy, maybe you had the Webasto heating unit in your van, I've experienced these units in commercial  vehicles only,and that was some years ago.

Just looked back to find more replies - thanks for all the extra advice. There seems so much to learn .....

For winter use without hookup you are better with a Nuevo that has the traumatic space heater, ultrastore water heater and space for a couple of decent sized gas bottles. You will have to drain tank and boiler each weekend and refill when you return. If you leave heater and water heater on low all weekend you will not incur frost damage, not flatten leisure battery and enjoy hot showers.

burlingtonboaby wrote:You might want to check out the hab area heating systems on your future van,
My 59 Symbol had a Eberspacher diesel fuelled heater  fitted and I found it totally inadequate to heat up the van from cold, fortunately I didn't have to spend the winter nights in it.
It used up most of the hab battery in less than 4 hours, if your thinking of stopping overnight in either van I would maybe consider a small Jenny to top up the batteries.
I exchanged my van to a coachbuilt Nuevo and found the Traumatic gas heating system cosy and warm during the winter months.
We take bottled water, for us and our dog.

Boaby

In a roundabout way, that is what I was hinting at Peter, can you get the Traumatic heating system in a Warwick?
Boaby

burlingtonboaby wrote:
In a roundabout way, that is what I was hinting at Peter, can you get the Traumatic heating system in a Warwick?
Boaby

No, they only put blown air heaters in the van conversions which of course use a lot of battery in winter.

burlingtonboaby wrote:I can only comment on my experience with my van during a very cold winters up in the highlands. At minus 18, in a frost pocket .
It was so cold the council couldn't break ground in the cemetery in Killin for two weeks.
Hab battery life has to been taken into consideration when out in these cold conditions, if your not on EHU, hab batteries will run low within hours and stop the Eberspacher from running.
Boaby

P.s Bulletguy, maybe you had the Webasto heating unit in your van, I've experienced these units in commercial  vehicles only,and that was some years ago.

That was it!! I just couldn't remember the name last night. Didn't half whack out some heat and much more efficient than the Carver gas in my current van.