Using camper in sub-zero temperatures

I fancy using my van as a base for winter mountain walking, which would mean spending nights out when the outside temperature was below freezing. 2 questions really:

1. How good is the insulation in a Duetto? With reflective window blinds will it be OK, and
   
2. What do I need to do to "winterise" it? I imagine I'd need to insulate the fresh & grey water tanks and water pipes to prevent freezing, and presumably the Thetford cassette loo is vulnerable to freezing. What to do about that? I've got Propane rather than Butane, so I imagine heaters & stoves will work OK.
   

Any advice welcome.

Hi there,

My advice is:

1.  Buy external screen covers to keep the heat in.

2.  Propane is essential and it will work down to below -30 degrees.

3.  Completely drain the water heater and fresh water tank and use bottled water.

4.  Open up the waste tank valve and run the water into a shallow bowl; that is emptied before it overflows.

The bio-liquid that we use in the toilet flush tank has anti-freeze properties.  The flush water may start to freeze but it will go to a "mush" rather than a solid and expanding lump of ice that will fracture the tank.  I don't know how far the temperature would have to drop to cause problems.

Tanks can be heated and pipes can be insulated but the problem with insulation is that, given sufficient temperature differential and sufficient exposure time, the water in the pipes will freeze.

We have camped out with external temperatures down to -5 degrees without any problems.  We don't put the heater on when we are in bed but we have good quality sleeping bags and the inside temperature has dropped to as low as 4 degrees at times without a problem.

It soon warms up when we start the heater though!     

Hope this helps.    

Best regards,
 

The fundamental question is whether you will be on an electric hook up or not?

Peter

However cold it is outside it is it is important to keep at least one window open a crack. It's especially important while you cook.

If you don't you will be forever mopping up condensation.

When you pitch take note of wind direction etc and try to get it so that your hab door is facing away from the wind. If possible do this for the fridge vents as well.

It's also a good idea to put something under the windscreen wipers to avoid them freezing onto the screen and damaging the rubber. We use a couple of strips of off-cut from silicone oven liner but anything non-absorbent will do.

Q

Quilter wrote:

It's also a good idea to put something under the windscreen wipers to avoid them freezing onto the screen and damaging the rubber. We use a couple of strips of off-cut from silicone oven liner but anything non-absorbent will do.

Q

Wine corks perhaps.

John.

Another thing we find useful in winter. If you're not on hook up and you're trying to conserve gas for heating, then a couple of these things- they come much cheaper than this- are very useful, if not very cool, for use in the evening when you're sitting still. They also serve as an extra blanket and they fold quite small into a cushion cover so can be used as a scatter cushion during the day.

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G

It would be useful if you had stated which model of Duetto you have, but I am guessing it is on a MK4 or5 Transit. The later marks had diesel heaters and your main problem in cold weather would be if you battery capacity was not enough to keep the rather power-hungry heater supplied with electricity.

We have visited the North Cape of Norway in a MK5 and it was cold enough for the pipes under the van to freeze solid during the 'night' and the effect of this was that we could not drain our waste water from the kitchen sink. The previous advice by Dutto about using a bowl to drain the waste into is good, but you must make sure that all the water can drain freely through the pipes into the waste tank and then out to the bowl. Any upward loops or bends anywhere in the pipes under the van will be able to form ice traps and you will be snookered.

We used exterior Taylor Made screens and they were very good.

A problem with the Duettos is that the fridge has not been sealed properly and any wind blowing on the fridge vents will come through into the body of the van via any gap it can find (there are plenty). This was a significant problem for us.

When it is windy, you will not have any ventilation problems and it will not be necessary to leave windows open.

Use propane as previously recommended, but beware of your limited gas capacity of only 7.8KG, you will burn this off in a cold windy weekend without any difficulty at all!

It is helpful in windy weather (especially when the wind is on the front of the van) to turn the cab heater air supply to recirculate, as this will stop the howling gale from the cab vents. In order to switch to recirculate you must turn the distribution knob with the ignition on and wait for at least 10 seconds to allow the motor to move the flaps in the heater box. Sorry to seem to be teaching you how to suck eggs, but in my experience many Transit owners do not know about having to have the ignition switched on.

Don't forget to fit the fridge covers to prevent overcooling.

If you are on electric hook-up, then life is a good deal easier.

Good luck!

Hi guys,

One of the things I love about this forum is how one can pick up useful tips from a post that seemingly has no relation to the type of touring we do.

I am a Mk6 Transit owner and did not know about the need to activate the ignition to close the vents. Relevant even here in Ireland in 'summer'.

Thanks spospe.

Davy

Clip clothes pegs onto the end of the wiper to stand it off the screen if either very hot or very cold. Still waiting to hear from OP about hook up or not.

Peter

Thanks guys. Lots of useful advice there. 
# We have a 1967 Transit Duetto, (the Smiley face one, which is, I think, a Mark 5?)
# What are these fridge covers Spospe mentions.
# Our cassette loo fills from the fresh water tank, so I guess we'd have to flush with grey water from the kitchen sink. Do we need to worry about the cassette freezing?
# I will investigate sealing the fridge.
# I think our heater is gas, rather than a diesel (Eberspacher?)

Yes, Peter, we've used pegs on the windscreen wipers to protect them.... BUT!  Put it on your list of "Things to do before moving off" ....to remove the pegs!

Swansea Jac wrote:Yes, Peter, we've used pegs on the windscreen wipers to protect them.... BUT!  Put it on your list of "Things to do before moving off" ....to remove the pegs!

Like I said use wine corks and if you forget to take them off no damage done if wipers used.

John.

artheytrate wrote:
Like I said use wine corks and if you forget to take them off no damage done if wipers used.

John.

Where on earth are you going to find wine corks on a campsite?      

Just be careful, if you're using something that holds the wiper proud of the screen for any length of time, that you don't damage the wiper mechanism. We leave the thin strip of oven liner ( or similar) under ours when the van is parked up between trips all year round to protect against the rubber freezing or melting to the screen.

Q

Why not pull them up & pointing 'skyward' for the night, I've done it zillions of times, dosn't even affect the springs, then simply flip 'em back down in the morning.

Whatever method you use it is a good thing to get them away from the screen...!

Q

edmason wrote:Thanks guys. Lots of useful advice there. 
# We have a 1967 Transit Duetto, (the Smiley face one, which is, I think, a Mark 5?)
# What are these fridge covers Spospe mentions.
# Our cassette loo fills from the fresh water tank, so I guess we'd have to flush with grey water from the kitchen sink. Do we need to worry about the cassette freezing?
# I will investigate sealing the fridge.
# I think our heater is gas, rather than a diesel (Eberspacher?)

A few points.......

1) There must be a date error and the Transit if a 'smiley' version would be 1997 not 1967?

2) The fridge covers go on the outside of the fridge vents (top and bottom) and are used to prevent overcooling in cold weather (and to reduce draughts due to poor Auto-Sleeper installation practice).

3) If your toilet fills from the fresh water tank, then there has been a drastic change to the original build specification, as all Duettos used their own flush tanks as supplied by AS.

4) I doubt that the toilet would ever freeze when the vehicle is being used with the heater on.

5) A 1997 Duetto will have a gas heater as supplied.

You can use a Duetto in cold weather, but it should be appreciated that they were built as three season vans and not intended for true winter use.

Try not using the flush at all. Gravity does the necessary disposal and a squirt of water from a squeezy bottle will freshen up the bowl if necessary.
That way you also have less water in the cassette so it will last longer between emptyings. A one ply paper napkin, unfolded in the bowl, takes care of your more substantial offerings. It also helps to rescale the bowl ( wipe over with vinegar or lemon juice) if you have hard water to make sure nothing sticks to the scale.

Spospe wrote:

edmason wrote:Thanks guys. Lots of useful advice there. 
# We have a 1967 Transit Duetto, (the Smiley face one, which is, I think, a Mark 5?)
# What are these fridge covers Spospe mentions.
# Our cassette loo fills from the fresh water tank, so I guess we'd have to flush with grey water from the kitchen sink. Do we need to worry about the cassette freezing?
# I will investigate sealing the fridge.
# I think our heater is gas, rather than a diesel (Eberspacher?)

A few points.......

1) There must be a date error and the Transit if a 'smiley' version would be 1997 not 1967?

2) The fridge covers go on the outside of the fridge vents (top and bottom) and are used to prevent overcooling in cold weather (and to reduce draughts due to poor Auto-Sleeper installation practice).

3) If your toilet fills from the fresh water tank, then there has been a drastic change to the original build specification, as all Duettos used their own flush tanks as supplied by AS.

4) I doubt that the toilet would ever freeze when the vehicle is being used with the heater on.

5) A 1997 Duetto will have a gas heater as supplied.

You can use a Duetto in cold weather, but it should be appreciated that they were built as three season vans and not intended for true winter use.

That's interesting. You are right, of course, it's a 1997.

• Where would I get fridge vent covers?
  
• The cassette is a standard Thetford C3 I think, which doesn't have a separate flush water tank. It doesn't look as if the original has been modified. I have wondered about modifying it to flush with gray water.
  
• I'd never thought of vans as 3 or 4 season, like sleeping bags, but that makes sense.
  

 

Don't know if these are what you are looking for.. But might be worth phoning Matt to ask...He knows his stuff and might be able to help?   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hello

If you have means of ehu then you should be at a camp site, try using there toilet and your own paper   as for winterising your van then it will be a problem, I have had to redesign my little falcon to fit nordic conditions and it was not easy. Heat will leave via windows, roof and small nooks and crannies. The wind (if any) will cool down a warm van in minutes, try to park in a shelterd place away from wind if possible i.e. woods, hedgerow, high wall ect. As for keeping warm, plenty of blankets, hot water bottle and a wife who likes body language!  
1. Cover your windows from the outside
2. close the curtains
3. Use cooker/hob often
4. use bottled water and empty all water/waste tanks 
5. camping heater for emergencies

Hope some of this helps.

Regards

MF