charging leisure battery

when driving does the alternator charge both  the leisure and vehicle batteries? does the duetto (1996) have a split charging system? 

Yes. The fuse for the split charger is usually found together with fridge fuse hanging somewhere around the engine battery. If you're having problems with the leisure battery not charging, it's worth checking the fuse out first.

On my 1999 Duetto, there was a black plastic box with a hinged lid near to the engine battery and in it were the split charging relay and fuse.

To answer your original question again; as Paul said, both batteries are charged from the alternator when the engine is running.

cheers guys i will have a look tomorrow. 

In your Duetto the split charge relay (connects the alternator to both batteries) is part of the Ford chassis fit and not an AS add on as with Peugeot and VW of that period.

Peter

i have checked the fuses and all seems well,just to be sure i replaced them,there are only 2 a 20amp and a 15amp.i checked both batteries the leisure battery read ok but the vehicle battery read low charge.the reason i was concerned about them was because the propex heater won't light up off the leisure battery but does with the engine running and also when on ehu.anyone got any ideas? 

while reading other battery problems on here i am wondering if my leisure battery is a vehicle battery how can you tell? and if so would this affect firing up the propex heater? 

Check both batteries with a volt meter, record what you get with and without engine running and let us know the results  

Depending on the age and model of your Propex heater on some the minimum voltage 'at the heater'  10v. Can you check voltage at the heater?  Are you getting flashing lights to indicate fault, if so how many flashes? (this again may only apply to later models). Which model is yours?

If it is working ok with engine running or EHU then it does point to a possible knack...d leisure battery not maintaining sufficient voltage to run things    Hence suggestion to check voltages as that is the easy option. (Hopefully   ).

Hi   

You don’t say what year the van is (or I’ve missed it if you have) but on my van the split charge relay is in the corner of the engine bay above the vehicle battery and is not enclosed in any kind of box.
There are no fuses at all fitted in the split charging system!  

I also have a 15A and a 20A fuse. The 15A fuse feeds the fridge and the 20A the habitation area.

mickenbacker 330 wrote:while reading other battery problems on here i am wondering if my leisure battery is a vehicle battery how can you tell? and if so would this affect firing up the propex heater?

Using a vehicle battery in place of a leisure will make no difference as far as the heater is concerned (or anything else for that matter) as long as it is in reasonable condition.  The problem is that the vehicle battery will not give as many charge / discharge cycles as a leisure battery before it fails.
If it is a leisure battery it should  be identified as such on the label.

mickenbacker 330 wrote:i was concerned about them was because the propex heater won't light up off the leisure battery but does with the engine running and also when on ehu.

Hang on a minute are you sure about that. Nothing to do with the battery good / bad  problem but unless I’m missing something the propex box should be disconnected when the engine is on.

Jaytee wrote:If it is working ok with engine running or EHU then it does point to a possible knack...d leisure battery not maintaining sufficient voltage to run things    Hence suggestion to check voltages as that is the easy option. (Hopefully   ).

I agree with that (apart from the engine running bit).  It’s quite simple to check that the charging system is basically working. Measure the voltage on both batteries when the van has been standing for a while. Then start the engine and make sure that the voltage rises on both batteries.

Brod.

thanks for the responses.it turns the leisure battery was a vehicle battery.we went for a run out to see if this would put more charge in the battery and passed a battery shop (yeah i know it sounds corny but that is what it was  ) and the guy pointed out the battery being a vehicle not leisure one so we bought one off him.everything seems ok now.the heater does run with the engine on.i was wondering if this is so you can have heat in the back when driving because it is cold in the back the van heater doesn't really do it.dont know if this would be a safe practice though. 

Aaaargh!!     

Sorry but "the man" had a job selling batteries; which he did very well by the sound of it!     

There is NO DIFFERENCE between the two types of battery when it comes to delivering "voltage"!  The only difference is that a so-called "Leisure Battery" is designed so that it can be "deep cycled" (i.e. the voltage can be dropped below 10.4volts) without causing damage.

There is every possibility that your battery was damaged but the fact that it wasn't a "Leisure Battery" was immaterial; "Petal's" leisure battery is an ordinary 65AH Bosch car battery that is doing just fine after nearly three years.

With regard to the heater, on "Petal" the heater fan has to be turned up to maximum before it will ignite.  With the engine running (and presumably more voltage available) the fan will run faster.  I have discovered by default that the maximum fan setting isn't always required when we are on EHU. (I have never tried it with the engine running!)

Also, it is NOT recommended that you have the fan heater running when you are on the move because there is a high possibility that the flame would blow out.

Hope this helps.  

Best regards,
 

Dutto's right there - my last Transit had separate vehicle batteries for both vehicle and leisure use, and leisure use did it no harm. The first one lasted 6 years and was only replaced as a precaution. The second one was 6 years old and working fine when I sold the van...

IIRC the Caravan Club tested "leisure" batteries a few months ago and they were so unimpressed that they only found one make that was materially better than an equivalent (cheaper) vehicle battery.

mickenbacker 330 wrote:the heater does run with the engine on.

As others have said, that's not normal for a '96 van. Whether it's a symptom of an underlying fault or just something a previous owner re-wired is impossible to say at this stage.

Sounds as if whatever battery you had was duff so no loss getting a new one, just gain as it's sorted  

I agree that it seems your leisure battery was faulty and also that you should have the gas turned OFF and not use the heater when the engine is running.

For the benefit of other readers, when additional auxiliary/leisure batteries were first installed a relay (called split charge) connected the vehicle and leisure batteries together when the engine was running so they were both charged from the vehicle alternator. The location of the relay, wiring and fusing arrangements varied with type of base vehicle and whether the leisure battery was installed under the bonnet or in the habitation area.

There were two problems with this, one was the potential to damage habitation 12v electrics with high voltages from the alternator and the other was the potential for habitation apparatus to generate electrical interference that would affect systems on the base vehicle, possible safety systems.

As a result at various times in the second half of the 1990's a second relay was added to disconnect the habitation circuitry from both batteries when the engine was running. This relay (or an additional one) was also then used to supply an independent 12v to the fridge so that the fridge could be used electrically whilst driving.

Peter

Peter Brown wrote:………..

As a result at various times in the second half of the 1990's a second relay was added to disconnect the habitation circuitry from both batteries when the engine was running.  This relay (or an additional one) was also then used to supply an independent 12v to the fridge so that the fridge could be used electrically whilst driving.

Peter

Peter,

    

"Petal" is a 1998 Duetto and the 12V system in the habitation area is automatically switched off when the ignition is turned on and before the engine starts!

I must admit, I didn't realise that some models could actually run the heating system (or any other 12v function apart from the fridge) when the engine was running; but I am very glad that AS sorted it on "Petal"!   

Best regards,
  
Ian

Hi Ya. I have a 2000 reg old model Duetto and it has a switch under the cooker for turning the charger on and off. Maybe its been turned off accidentally and so the leisure battery doesn't charge from the EHU, only the alternator. I am also sure that in my hand book it states that I can run my Carver heater while on the move and that it is safe to do so. I will go and look later. Regards, David.

cheers david that would be good to know. 

Hi.   

d.l.hunter wrote:I am also sure that in my hand book it states that I can run my Carver heater while on the move and that it is safe to do so.

Not sure about that, but in vehicle of that era the gas should be turned off when moving anyway! If you were unlucky enough to have an accident the last thing you want is a broken gas pipe leaking propane/butane.

On my van (and probably many others) there is a warning on the sticker on the window saying  “Turn the gas supply off before moving.” Add the fact that the habitation power supply should be off anyway and there should be no way that the heater could run.

Peter Brown wrote:potential for habitation apparatus to generate electrical interference that would affect systems on the base vehicle, possible safety systems.

As Peter said earlier, the relay should cut the power is to prevent electrical interference getting into the vehicle electrical system.

To that end AS were almost certainly required to fit the relay, in order to comply with the EMC regulations current at the time. A situation that seems to have continued until at least 2009.

From the “Devon 2009 handbook page 7-23:
“The EMC (Electromagnetic Compatibility) Directive 89/336/EEC requires that electrical accessories in the vehicle are disconnected while the vehicle is in motion.”

Actually this is only partially true. There were later changes to the regulations that allowed the use of electrical equipment if it had been tested and issued with the appropriate “Certificate of Conformance”.  Testing can be difficult and expensive and that probably explains why manufactures tended to disconnect the equipment instead, when the vehicle became mobile.

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I’d say it’s not a good idea (and possibly illegal) to bypass the relay and certainly not a good idea to run around with the gas supply turned on!

Brod.

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If the link above works you will see some '95 circuit diagrams (you have to scroll down).  I can see split charge relays and fridge relays but nothing to disconnect the battery from the Zig distribution circuitry when the ignition/engine is operated?  It was certainly introduced soon after that.

Peter

Hi.   

Peter Brown wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If the link above works you will see some '95 circuit diagrams (you have to scroll down).  I can see split charge relays and fridge relays but nothing to disconnect the battery from the Zig distribution circuitry when the ignition/engine is operated?  It was certainly introduced soon after that.

Agreed.

I’m fairly sure that the provisions in the 1989 regulations became mandatory in 1995 (may be 1996) so I would have expected a 1996 van to have it fitted. My 1997 example certainly does. It’s the date of manufacture that counts (I think) so it is indeed possible that it wasn’t fitted to a van registered in 1996 if it was manufactured earlier.

I’d still say that if the relay is fitted it’s not a good idea to bypass it, and that driving around with the gas on is not a good idea.

Brod.

brodco wrote:

I’d still say that if the relay is fitted it’s not a good idea to bypass it, and that driving around with the gas on is not a good idea.

Brod.

I agree 100%

Peter

just a point to note.the heater also blows cold air.in summer time would this be used like aircon? could that be why it runs with the engine on or am i the only one who's does  also could it just be a faulty relay that needs replacing?

mickenbacker 330 wrote:just a point to note.the heater also blows cold air.in summer time would this be used like aircon? ……………..

Hi there,

If it isn't an air-conditioner why not just open the door?   

The fan generates heat so in actual fact switching it on will heat up the cabin rather than cool it down!      

However, spraying yourself with either water or French cologne and standing in the draught will definitely help on hot nights.    

Best regards