Is this the future

by Paulmold Sun May 12, 2024 7:54 pm

Our neighbours on this CL have a Wildax Altair, all electric (except engine which is diesel). Built on 3ltr MAN xlwb. Checked the spec, no gas at all, no oven or grill , it has 2 induction hobs and a microwave, to power that it has 400w solar, a 3000w inverter and 1 lithium battery or you can hook up.. Heating is by diesel/electric Truma Combi, all that for £102000.
Is that the future?, not for me it isn't.

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by groundhog Sun May 12, 2024 8:35 pm

Just watched a review of it, looks a nice conversion but where I struggle is with £102000. End of the day it is still a converted commercial vehicle and there are plenty of decent conversions out there, some not factory produced for a lot less money. Are you going to really get that much extra pleasure with a £100,000 plus van?
I guess if £100,000 was a good night out to me I might think differently, no I don't see anything exceptional or radical about it to be the future.

by Guest Sun May 12, 2024 10:29 pm

It's a bargain compared to the AS M Star at £125,250 OTR

by IanH Mon May 13, 2024 6:38 am

If I was doing a DIY van conversion it'd be similar to this.
Diesel engine, no EV nonsense.
As much solar as possible on the roof.

Diesel hot water, diesel air heating.

Induction hob and microwave.

Rest as per normal.

One fuel, diesel, solar to LB(s) ( probably not lithium). No gas so space used by gas available for, perhaps extra water. Composting toilet too btw! up!

Most yachts have no gas....

by The Bargee Mon May 13, 2024 7:10 am

Paul, is it the price or the electrics that are not for you?

The price is only some 20k above that for a large new AS PVC, for what I believe is a better base van, a few more extras and the enhanced electrical spec. I can’t comment on the build quality.

If it is the all-electric habitation concept that bothers you then my view is that this is not “the future.” It is “the present” in other recreational fields. My impression as a newcomer to motorhomes is that motorhomes are about 25 years or more behind boats. Wildax are just catching up, and AS are well in the past.

I am with Ian on the spec. (except for the composting loo!). My van is not all electric yet, but only because it is not sensible to ditch the existing gas boiler and fridge whilst they provide adequate service. When they fail they will be replaced with diesel and electric units respectively. Gas remains a big potential safety issue, quite apart from the present issues with supply, and quite apart from the nasty fumes that are generated in a small habitation area.

I would have to look closely at the detail specification of the Wildax, and the build quality, but if they offered the right layout for our lifestyle then I would be sore tempted to visit the dealers tomorrow!

Edit: sorry Ian, but I would also be going for water based heating. Nice small bore pipes and outlets where you want them! And you forgot the air cooker (or “fryer” as some call them).

by Dbvwt Mon May 13, 2024 7:35 am

Funnily enough I actually sat in this exact model at Wiltshire caravans on Friday as I was down that way with half a day to spare.
Build quality IMO was ok but nothing to write home about and the washroom (which is important to me) felt very cramped. Sadly only a 7/10 but the gas free element 10/10.
I also looked at Ultravans Ultra2 model, they are down the road near Marlborough. Wow, that beast blew me away as I pulled up outside their unit.
The model I saw had gas but they would happily do all electric. The quality and components used throughout were on a different level for similar money to the Altair.
IMO, gas free is definitely the future and if I was looking for another ready built van then finding a good small converter would be my choice 100%.
£100k+ for a van is truly shocking but the Bargee makes a good point. A new Symbol is now nearly £80k!

by Cymro Mon May 13, 2024 7:56 am

Dbvwt wrote:..... A new Symbol is now nearly £80k!

That caused me to look up the equivalent sum, at 2024 £s, of what I paid in 1998 for a new Clubman, on the road with extras.

I bought it for £31K - which in today's terms was £68K. (I've no idea how I was able to afford that, though largely thanks to Father-in-Law). Of course the spec of the 2024 Symbol is different: some materials and equipment are better, some are worse.

Cymro

by The Bargee Mon May 13, 2024 8:09 am

Wow, nearly my favoured layout in the Ultravan 2, and a good choice of finishes!

by Paulmold Mon May 13, 2024 9:31 am

Quote "Paul, is it the price or the electrics that are not for you?"

Bit of both. I could never afford new whether AS , Wildax or any other whether 80k or 120k. No oven or grill would never do for us (I know continental vans don't have them), not that we use either very often but like to have a choice (we rarely eat out). Gas supply isn't a problem yet, where we are right now there are 4 outlets all with stock within 20 miles, 2 in Peterborough, 1 in Oakham and 1 4 miles away that I topped up in yesterday.
I can't say I like the layouts available on the Altair. The price by the way doesn't include, tv or awning or habitation aircon. Spec does show 2x100amp lithium batteries, 100 litre water and 80 ltr waste tank. Perhaps AS should include some of those in their specs.

by Peter Brown Mon May 13, 2024 9:50 am

The Bargee wrote:

The price is only some 20k above that

I wish I was in a position to say that.........

by Caraman Mon May 13, 2024 10:03 am

IanH wrote:....
Most yachts have no gas....

That's not correct. In the very early days I did once sail a small yacht that had a spirit stove and no gas. With that one exception, every yacht I have sailed, and there have been many, has had a gas stove. Some yachts have had a diesel heater as well. Having gas on a yacht is dangerous as when it leaks within the hull, it sinks into the bilge turning the yacht into a bomb. For this reason, many precautions are taken with its use.

by groundhog Mon May 13, 2024 10:42 am

andyfal wrote:It's a bargain compared to the AS M Star at £125,250 OTR

More like the AS M star like many vans is way overpriced.
Not the same thing I know but Arbutus RV in Nanaimo Canada, who are not the cheapest by any stretch, will sell you a new Thor Delano 24 for the equivalent of around £130,000 so a little more than a new AS Winchcombe but look what you get for the money. It is not made of sticky backed plastic and cardboard either. Comes on the sprinter chassis with a 12 year warranty and everything power, slides, generator just a whole different ball game for the same sort of money.
As we all want different in our vans, the way forward logically must be with bespoke builders not necessarily the one size fits all product, the cost difference is now becoming minimal.
Compared to the build of a decent yacht the quality of motorhomes is laughable. Our last yacht was a Hanse 312 but the build was solid, gas cooker but everything else was diesel and solar powered. Porcelain toilet, instant hot water... and we bought it in 2011!
One thing that makes a difference imho is the stupid restriction on weight where the need is to build everything down to 3500kgs, yet the vehicle can be as big as you like.
If that was increased to say 5000kgs or ideally 7500kgs and scrap the C1 licence then builders may have the opportunity to increase quality using better materialswithout killing off 80%of the potential market.

by Guest Mon May 13, 2024 10:50 am

I agree entirely in fact I have already decided my next camper will be a self build to my own spec. Luckily I have the C1 through my grandfather rights so will use decent quality furniture, fixtures and fittings without much regard to weight. Better still it will be as I want it, and I appreciate any resale value would probably be much less than the main players vehicles regardless of their quality but I will be likely to keep hold of it anyway with it fitting my needs and wants.

by Caraman Mon May 13, 2024 11:16 am

I am no fan of gas but for as long as it is available at pumps and cheaper than diesel and mains electricity, its use will be popular and even more so now that many sites are metering their EHUs. When we ran out of gas, we managed for a day or so with just mains electricity as we still had the George Forman, microwave and a hotplate. It was the summer but even in the winter the 16A should have been enough with the heating turned off whilst cooking.

by IanH Mon May 13, 2024 1:26 pm

Caraman wrote:
That's not correct. In the very early days I did once sail a small yacht that had a spirit stove and no gas. With that one exception, every yacht I have sailed, and there have been many, has had a gas stove. Some yachts have had a diesel heater as well. Having gas on a yacht is dangerous as when it leaks within the hull, it sinks into the bilge turning the yacht into a bomb. For this reason, many precautions are taken with its use.

Usually with the gas bottle hanging over the stern rail so if it leaks it doesn't leak into the bilge. Most, even with just diesel engines, no petrol, no gas also have bilge blowers to clear any gases from the bilge pre engine start scratch head

by groundhog Mon May 13, 2024 2:41 pm

Depends on where the outlet for the spitzenpopsenbangentuben is Ian, get that near the gas and all hell breaks loose.
Also you know the importance of the wing chord, if that is not attached properly or fouls the prop then disaster looks. Same on a van conversion I am sure.

by Caraman Mon May 13, 2024 3:45 pm

IanH wrote:
Usually with the gas bottle hanging over the stern rail so if it leaks it doesn't leak into the bilge. Most, even with just diesel engines, no petrol, no gas also have bilge blowers to clear any gases from the bilge pre engine start

I was commenting on your statement "Most yachts have no gas...." as the opposite is the case. The gas precautions that are taken on a yacht in its design and use and what to do when there has been a leak are not relevant to this thread. But I must say I have never sailed a yacht with "the gas bottle hanging over the stern rail" or for that matter with a "bilge blower". The gas bottles are stored above the waterline in a gas locker which drains directly out to sea and not into the hull. If gas has leaked into the hull the drill was to stop the leak by turning the gas off at the bottle, if sea conditions allowed open all hatches and lift the floor boards to expose the bilge and then use the manual bilge pump for about 1/2 an hour until no more gas could be smelt or detected. The last thing I would do is start the engine or use any electrical device that could spark and ignite the gas.

by The Bargee Mon May 13, 2024 6:49 pm

Peter Brown wrote:

I wish I was in a position to say that.........

So do I.

I am sure you know what I meant.

If you can afford to splash 84K on a new AS then it is not a fantastic leap to a better quality van with more included extras such as inverter and bigger batteries at 102 K, with the bonus of no gas. It’s all relative, whether you buy a new van or a five year old.

by The Bargee Mon May 13, 2024 7:05 pm

Incidentally, does anybody know the list price of the base Man van? 3 litre TGE.

All I can find is the monthly finance prices, and only 2.0 litre engines.

I’m not thinking of buying, just interested in what the conversion cost might be.

by Paulmold Mon May 13, 2024 7:22 pm

This any good....

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by The Bargee Mon May 13, 2024 8:08 pm

Thanks. I thought that looked quite reasonable until I saw the options list!

Edit : Here is a more detailed price list. Sit down first if you want high spec! Can’t see a price for AWD though!

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……… and I think the prices are 2022!

by Sally Fri May 17, 2024 3:28 pm

I’m interested why people think ‘no gas’ is a bonus. Is it just the perceived availability issues? Or something else I’m not aware of?

The reason I ask is that I have never had a single issue with the van having gas as a fuel source, but it has benefits of a full proper cooker (I like cooking and rarely eat out in the van).

by v8oholic Fri May 17, 2024 3:51 pm

I'm quite happy with gas, as I only tour on the continent where it's freely available. I've been using the heating a lot the last few days as it's been cold overnight in the Alps. Even so, I would rather have an extra cupboard than an oven. Ditto with the microwave. An induction hob would work well for my needs, which solely consist of boiling a kettle when not on EHU. I always eat out.

by Caraman Fri May 17, 2024 4:41 pm

I think the induction hob only gives two mains hot plates and the coachbuilts only have one hot plate but they also have 3 gas burners, a gas grill and gas oven all of which we use (well my wife does) in addition to the microwave. I think we are better off having gas. At home we don't have a gas cooker and a couple of winters ago following a storm we had a prolonged power cut so we had our meals in the motorhome. Couldn't have done that with an all electric van.

Relatively cheap marine diesel makes sense when heating a boat and maybe road diesel is cheaper than mains electricity on a metered site but it can't be cheaper than the LPG we have. I've read it is similarly priced to bottled gas but is noisy. We had a van parked near us with diesel heating and we could hear it firing up all night.

by PLOUGHLIN Fri May 17, 2024 5:03 pm

Diesel heaters need not be noisy, fitted with the available exhaust silencer extra they are near silent.

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