Which Leisure Battery ?

Hi yet again all

I am researching leisure batteries and was just about to go for the sealed unit type called an AGM battery, no spills etc. 
The chap at Alpha Batteries said most AGM batteries are not suitable for older motorhome chargers, mine is 2007 Nuevo, as the AGM battery needs 14.7 volts to charge it.
I was looking at the battery make Xtreme XR 1750 110Ah which is an 'A' class battery which is what I want, cost about £150.

Potentially its good advice but does anybody know if it is correct please?

Thanks
AngB

most 12 volt batteries charge at 14.4-14.6 volts , don't see. why  an AGM battery won't charge where a flooded type will .

Hi again
Following on from my original post I just found this from L.A.S. Motorhomes.

I am not wishing to replace any charging bits on my motorhome so Its probably back to old tech and the lead acid battery.

Ta....AngB

1. The A.G.M. battery is considerably more expensive.
2. The deep cycle A.G.M. batteries can only be discharged to 50%, whereas the lead acid battery can be discharged to 80%. This means that the lead acid battery can run appliances longer each single charge.
3. An A.G.M battery should not be overcharged, as it will shorten its life or can immediately kill the battery.
Before you all go out and replace your leisure batteries with A.G.M. ones, there are a few other things you should know.
The charging of A.G.M. batteries is different to that of the lead acid battery. The voltage required to charge them is greater, therefore you will need to replace the original motor home charger if it is not programmable. Even  if this is the case, you will then need to fit a devise that will increase the charge voltage from your engines alternator. This would then enable you to charge the leisure batteries whilst travelling at the required greater voltage.

Simplicity and minimalism!

Stick with what has worked since the thing was new.

Spend the money you've saved on solar if you don't already have some, a far better option imho

Point 2 above doesn’t look right to me!  I also agree with Ian.

Dbvwt wrote:Point 2 above doesn’t look right to me!  I also agree with Ian.

I think you may be able to go to 80% on a good quality flooded lead acid battery but 50% is a safer and better figure to aim for. Cycles life is proportionate to depth of discharge. At the end of the day it depends whether you want to use your batteries to the full or make them last. I think it may be fairly true to say that you will only ever get the same number of amps out overall regardless of how deep you discharge them within the 50 to 80% parameters. FLA batteries are relatively cheap, they are 98% recyclable and you get a bit of cash back if you take them to the scrapyard.

I think you need to be a bit careful what deep cycle (aka “leisure”) batteries you buy. I hear some stories of leisure batteries that are little better than re-branded cranking batteries. My favoured brand is Trojan and I have been using them in various applications for well over 20 years with an average life of 7-8 years.

https://trojanbatteries.co.uk/12-volt-deep-cycle-c272/trojan-27tmx-12v-105ah-deep-cycle-floodedwet-lead-acid-battery-p4872

Trojan sell direct and through U.K. dealers. My son bought 6 x T105’s for his boat a few days ago at a very good price direct from Trojan, but for smaller orders you may need to shop around to get the best balance on price and delivery cost if you can’t collect.

I strongly agree with Ian. I stay with the time proven technology we know. AGM batteries are for boats and bikes that turn over and lithium batteries are still far too expensive for the benefits and problems that can be involved. I was just dealing with an electric powered boat yesterday that had experienced a slight flood from rainwater which has rendered £15,000 worth of lithium batteries unusable at a stroke!

Dbvwt wrote:Point 2 above doesn’t look right to me!  I also agree with Ian.

As in, possibly the wrong way round?

v8oholic wrote:
As in, possibly the wrong way round?

That was also my thinking?

Have you considered lead carbon  check out the spec on alpha batterys , deeper cycle many more charge cycles . I bought 110amp expedition plus lead carbon  from alpha

Don't bother with lead acid they only good for half the capacity if discharged to much practically useless
when i purchased my malvern 2018 18month ago the lead acid leaisure battery was useless struggled to  last a couple nights when not plugged into external 240v. 
i researched available po4 life bateries and found ROAMER do under front seat box battery that just drops into existing circuit. I altered configeration slightly by geting a neighbour to add me a Victron battery to battery for additional and better charging. So now when vehicle battery charged rest of charge off alternator goes straight into the Roamer and it is charged to full capacity by the time you get were you going . It also rated 220ah so can park up anywhere for a week using 12v and gas and if do need to get on a site to fill up water  etc plug in for a night and good to go again dont think it been below 50% charge also the full 100% power can be used on these so i could have probably saved some cash and got a 140ah Po4 life instead of this but now i have the option to add an inverter and get a few appliances etc if needed powereed off this.

If it works for you then that’s great but I wouldn’t just dismiss a simple lead acid that will work fine for most and cost a fraction of the price.
I’ve got a 2018 van and (please correct me if I’m wrong) the PX300 charger is not up to the job of charging lithium.

Dbvwt wrote:I’ve got a 2018 van and (please correct me if I’m wrong) the PX300 charger is not up to the job of charging lithium.

The PX300 is said to be able to charge lithium batteries which have built in BMS (most of them presumably). Not as efficiently as a high power charger with a lithium charging profile could manage, but it's only 20A output anyway, so the theoretical faster charging speed of lithium is academic. But it should still charge them. I'll find out next year if I fit one.

https://sargent.zohodesk.eu/portal/en/kb/articles/i-would-like-to-fit-a-lithium-battery

Dbvwt wrote:If it works for you then that’s great but I wouldn’t just dismiss a simple lead acid that will work fine for most and cost a fraction of the price.
I’ve got a 2018 van and (please correct me if I’m wrong) the PX300 charger is not up to the job of charging lithium.

I agree with you David. I have had lead acid in all my vans and never had a problem. Maybe it's my setup that helps.

Richard

dicko1962o wrote:Don't bother with lead acid they only good for half the capacity if discharged to much practically useless
when i purchased my malvern 2018 18month ago the lead acid leaisure battery was useless struggled to  last a couple nights when not plugged into external 240v. 
i researched available po4 life bateries and found ROAMER do under front seat box battery that just drops into existing circuit. I altered configeration slightly by geting a neighbour to add me a Victron battery to battery for additional and better charging. So now when vehicle battery charged rest of charge off alternator goes straight into the Roamer and it is charged to full capacity by the time you get were you going . It also rated 220ah so can park up anywhere for a week using 12v and gas and if do need to get on a site to fill up water  etc plug in for a night and good to go again dont think it been below 50% charge also the full 100% power can be used on these so i could have probably saved some cash and got a 140ah Po4 life instead of this but now i have the option to add an inverter and get a few appliances etc if needed powereed off this.

Never a problem for me, off grid never use EHU. What solar do you have and how much power do you use?

v8oholic wrote:
The PX300 is said to be able to charge lithium batteries which have built in BMS (most of them presumably). Not as efficiently as a high power charger with a lithium charging profile could manage, but it's only 20A output anyway, so the theoretical faster charging speed of lithium is academic. But it should still charge them. I'll find out next year if I fit one.

https://sargent.zohodesk.eu/portal/en/kb/articles/i-would-like-to-fit-a-lithium-battery

Sorry, what I should have said is it will charge a lithium battery but not very efficiently.

I’m not knocking the post about not bothering with a lead acid, in my next van lithium will definitely be fitted but in a standard 2018 van it’s not just a simple matter of dropping a lithium in if you want to make the most of it’s capabilities. Costs would soon escalate.
At present, if mine failed tomorrow then a £120 lead acid would be my choice.

AngB wrote:Hi yet again all

I am researching leisure batteries and was just about to go for the sealed unit type called an AGM battery, no spills etc. 
The chap at Alpha Batteries said most AGM batteries are not suitable for older motorhome chargers, mine is 2007 Nuevo, as the AGM battery needs 14.7 volts to charge it.
I was looking at the battery make Xtreme XR 1750 110Ah which is an 'A' class battery which is what I want, cost about £150.

Potentially its good advice but does anybody know if it is correct please?

Thanks
AngB

Your van will have either a Sargent PSU2005, Sargent PSU2007 or an MES electrical system. Each of those systems will only charge effectively a traditional Lead Acid battery.

Dbvwt wrote:

Sorry, what I should have said is it will charge a lithium battery but not very efficiently.

I’m not knocking the post about not bothering with a lead acid, in my next van lithium will definitely be fitted but in a standard 2018 van it’s not just a simple matter of dropping a lithium in if you want to make the most of it’s capabilities. Costs would soon escalate.
At present, if mine failed tomorrow then a £120 lead acid would be my choice.

It would charge it just as efficiently as it would charge a lead acid battery, so nothing lost in that regard if comparing like for like. It just won’t charge at the 50A the battery could take. What it would also need though is a DC-DC charger with a lithium profile. It’s not just a drop in replacement, for that reason.

“It’s not just a drop in replacement”

That’s the issue I have v8, I’ve read a fair few posts on here where people have read that lithium is the magic answer to everything and don’t understand that it’s not quite as simple as that.
In a new setup that is built around a lithium battery then I’m 100% on board. Just dropping lithium into an existing install needs a lot more thought IMO.

Hi
I have the MES electrical system.
Following my original post I spent some time researching batteries and speaking to three big suppliers. Following advice, I came to the conclusion that the latest technology batteries, AGM I think, were not a guaranteed benefit, perhaps not even suitable at all.

Maybe I am incorrect but I played it safe with a good lead acid leisure.

Thank everybody who helped with the advice.

AngB

When we bought the Rienza the leisure battery and solar system was a bit of a mess. Unmatched batteries, one 110 amp and one 100 amp, skimpy wires etc. I looked into the various battery types and sizes that would fit in the space available.
As others said I stayed with LA as originally fitted knowing I wouldn’t have to change the mains or vehicle charging system. The difference in cost went to an updated solar controller and correct size wires. I would have fitted two 110 amp batteries but there is less space under the passenger seat. My thinking being that matched batteries with a more efficient solar system would give us enough battery capacity for our needs all year.

I bought a lead carbon 110 amp from alpha  batterys, as  it had the correct charging voltage for my nuevo  , over 1200 cycles  and a deeper discharge  rate  ,