Upgrades for long term touring - symbol

Hi all

I have been given the opportunity to take a decent redundancy cheque and the Symbols of 2000-2004 (ish) vintage have caught our eye. Mainly thanks to the similar symphony showcased on “Jits into the sunset” on you tube.

The aim is to use it for 3-4 years for holidays and weekends but to upgrade elements over that time to enable comfortable off grid “living” touring the UK and Europe for a couple of years once the opportunity for retirement arrives.

So far the thoughts are (in rough order of priority)

Model - the ES appears much more flexible but much less common. What are we missing? 
Sleeping capacity - the four berth appears to be the same as the two berth but with no storage locker and some bedding boards. Would it be possible to simply add slats with webbing to add a high level storage area that sits on the same base as the bed “upstairs”? 

Potential “upgrades” - advice very much appreciated

1) Bedding  - Duvalay compact appears to be the bedding of choice when the restricted storage is taken into account? Alternatives to consider?

2) Kitchen workspace - do all models of this age have drop down additional surface by the back door or is this a user upgrade?

3) LPG - options appear to be refillable tank (plus calor as back up / emergency) in the locker or replacing the spare wheel with a much bigger tank. The benefit of the latter being a free locker. The drawback being no spare wheel!

4)  Solar - research suggests that two 40w would fit on the roof?

5) Batteries - again, research suggests two 120s are possible, one in the existing location and one in the locker. Is this a workable solution?

6) External BBQ point and shower - how hard are these to add?

7) External storage - back box instead of cycle rack.

What else might we consider and how practical / possible are these musings?

Hi
Welcome to the forum from Bridington 
Boaby

I added a Bullfinch external shower to my PVC.

We have a slightly different van but the principal will always be the same.

The old adage of measure twice and cut once needs to be changed to measure four or five times, then cut once.  You only get one shot at punching a hole through the external skin of your van 

I also added an extension piece to the hose as the original on its own isn't very long. 

 A trigger head is also very useful.

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Hi, Wilki. An adventure awaits you.

I think the best bit of advice I can give you is to be very wary of using the AS dealer near you. 

I hope you achieve your sim.

Welcome to the forum...

Re point 1( bedding) We make up 2 single beds but this can also work as a double.

Rather than have dedicated space for bulky bedding put your pillows into cushion covers for everyday use.  Roll your duvet (s) into a sausage and put into matching bolster cover(s) to be used to make the bench seats more comfortable. Cover the bench seats with memory foam and washable loose covers which keep the foam in place and are a blessing when, as we do, you spend long periods in the van.

I’ve sewn empty duvet covers along the full length of the duvet containing cover and these are tucked in at night to cover the bench seat and, like the Duvalay concept, stop the duvet from falling onto the floor when you turn over. 

Very cosy and quick to do. Over 6 years the foam is unmarked even after intensive use. I bought a mattress topper from Argos and cut to size. The bolster covers are available online in many fabrics.

Having owned a selection of van conversions, coach builts and A class vans over the years I would not consider a Symbol for long term touring.  It is too small.  A wider van is essential to be able to move about with out getting under each others feet. 6 meters or less in length. would be ok.  Just imagine being cooped up by bad weather for a week!

Of course a wider van is more difficult to drive' particularly if you have only had cars before.  Having a few driving   lessons in the vehicle works wonder for confidence.

Regrettably most campers buy the wrong vehicle to start with, me included, and IMHO the Symbol is not the right vehicle to meet your needs

tend to agree with TT above, the Symbol is a small van for long term touring, although very handy size for exploring some remote areas.
it depends where you tour....
three months in spain in the spring and you will be outside most of the time....three months in scotland in autumn and you'll possibly be going nuts.
i do wonder why folk buy tiny vans and then bolt on large storage boxes to the rear in order to acheive some sensible storage space, vital for longer term stays...
why make a 5.4m vehicle 6m long by adding a box on the back?
a 6m van would incorporate that box several times and end up the same overall length.
ok, if its your daily driver and the box is removed for part of the year, but for touring....?
also, kf touring abroad, a 5.4m van with a large box costs the same on that ferry crossing as a 6m van...
as others have mentioned....bedding storage can be a problem although Quilters post is interesting...
i realise most AS users wouldnt agree but for a long term tour in a PVC id be using a 6m van with a proper rear bed (where the bedding can stay) with stacks of storage underneath, similar footprint to a Symbol with a large back box but loads more room.....Adria Twin 600 SP (plenty of used ones about) is still pretty hard to beat at 6m for drivability, bed comfort, storage space...the lounge and kitchen wont be to some UK tastes but, again, if touring in the sunshine the lounge may not be such a priority nor will the demand for inside cooking.....its likely to be outside on a grill/BBQ or at the local hostelry as cheap as chips.
either way, good luck with the hunt.

I agree with others that a Symbol wouldn’t seem make an ideal vehicle. As someone new to this it's likely the first van you buy will soon show it's limitations. A possible solution is to approach a dealer who has lots of second hand stock and ask if you could hire one out for a few days or a week. We bought a 2nd hand Duetto and I have reason to believe this had been hired out. I found a then recent advert in MMM and the mileage was slightly less then. Rather than having their stock just depreciating the dealer can get some money in.

Some of the small vans rely on in-fill cushions to make up the bedding which takes up storage during the day. I didn't like a van where the front seats are used to make up the beds.

I wouldn't have a Calor cylinder as backup, as far as I know they are only sold in the UK . Having Camping Gas is better. So far I've no idea how available pumped gas is available in Europe etc. that's if you have a refillable system.

40W solar panel is too small.

On the continent, campsites often charge separately for electric hook up.

Take heed of personal and van security. You don't want your money and van stolen. Camping off-grid, Aires are more of a risk than in the UK, even staying on a recognised campsite abroad isn't without risks. Sometimes several vans can be done at the same time.

Torbaytimber wrote:Having owned a selection of van conversions, coach builts and A class vans over the years I would not consider a Symbol for long term touring.  It is too small.  A wider van is essential to be able to move about with out getting under each others feet. 6 meters or less in length. would be ok.  Just imagine being cooped up by bad weather for a week!

Owning a Symbol myself, I hate to say I have to agree.

The Symbol is perfect for us due to the type of holidays we take - short term, no longer than 2 weeks.  It is a fantastic van for buzzing around small towns and being able to park easily, but for longer than 2 weeks I could see the novelty wearing thin.  We toured Scotland over a couple of weeks a year or so ago, and any longer than 2 weeks would have become difficult, as the weather was a little against us and wet clothes start to build up in a small space with little drying room.

We came from a 2004 Nuevo that IMO would suit your needs better having ample space for storage etc but still a (relatively) small van.  We changed as we decided we preferred the PVC motorhomes and wanted the smaller size of the Symbol for nipping around towns, as we tend to use it also as a vehicle for local travel when we arrive, rather than pitch up and never move it again.

All motorhomes are a compromise, so you have to decide on what you want from it and where you are willing to make that compromise e.g. some people like a permanent bed, but it means they need a very large van to still be useable.  Others like the smaller PVC's (like me) but you have to consider less storage etc.

its good to read greyhounds honest opinion of life on the road in a small van....however, i dont agree with this....
" some people like a permanent bed, but it means they need a very large van to still be useable. "
people like permanent beds because they are far nicer to sleep on than made up beds...
continental touring (in the sunshine) puts far less emphasis on lounges and kitchens, rather focussing on decent sleeping comfort.
the Adria Twin (and other similar vans from just about every other continental brand) will have bed sizes that put UK ones to shame.
however, the Twin is just 6m, so is definitely not a 'very large' van.
our own van is 6.4m yet has two really large ready made beds, again, not a large van, being pretty much exactly the same footprint as (say) a Warwick XL....
if we were confined to touring in the UK I'd have a caravan, with a lovely lounge to watch the rain from and a tow car to visit all those little lanes....but as we tour Europe for going on 6 months a year (as mentioned by the OP) id stick to (and recommend) the type of van we have (proper bed, decent washroom, huge storage) or 6m PVC with underbed storage....certainly over a small make up bed van with little space for the things most folk take with them on a long tour.
as a above....a couple of weeks might be ok but 3 months or more?

All of the above feedback is very much appreciated

I am not new to the motor home lifestyle. With an ex I had a huge autohomes landliner that was driven to many festivals and F1 races as well as used for two to three week holidays with two foster children each of which needed their own bed and privacy!

Between now and extended touring, the small van makes sense to us as
My wife works in Cornwall, a 90 minute commute away. I have the option to locum and so either of us could use the van for short stopovers down there as an alternative to commuting. It would also be used as a regular day vehicle and for occasional sleep overs when I cover live music gigs up country.
So it needs to be small enough for car parks, Cornish lanes and for her to feel comfortable driving. For holidays of any length we also have the option of an awning to extend the space.

We have actually looked at the Adria and the only real drawback has been that apparently Europeans don’t cook! So it is very much on the list of possibilities.

The direction of travel will likely be to buy a symbol for the above use for the next three or four years (we also like the idea of a rental first if anyone knows someone renting that vintage). The depreciation seems low and then options to travel longer term will be clearer.

That said, We will know whether it works for us quite quickly (for longer term travel) and so the list of upgrades is part of me liking to “have a plan” if we decided it did work.

She doesn’t want a “bus” so the challenge is the sweet spot of small enough versus comfortable to live in.

"We have actually looked at the Adria and the only real drawback has been that apparently Europeans don’t cook!"


Oh yes, they do!
Generally, though, they cook outside...why wouldnt they on those warm, balmy evenings....not really the same demand there for a roast dinner.
however, to cater for us poor wet weather chefs, todays UK spec Twins come with an oven/grill as std, so a retro fit should be easy enough.
our German van didnt come with an oven but the dealer slipped in a Thetfore Duplex (similar to many UK vans) in lieu of one of the six kitchen drawers.


as you say, your requirements are for a smaller van for a while, sounds like the Symbol will do the job for a bit, but dont get hung up on ovens etc....a decent dealer will help you get the van you want....
good luck.