Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Hi to all you Autosleepers!! My 2018 Broadway has a Tracker fitted.

I have had a problem , maybe someone has an opinion or has experienced the following themselves:--

Firstly I need to give some facts.  In September my wife and I went to Canada for 24 days, leaving motorhome on drive,locked and Tracker on.  On day after return took motorhome out for run. No problem starting vehicle.  All other times I never leave vehicle more than 13-14 days before giving it a "run".  

Took motorhome out on 29 Nov.  13 days later ( 12 Dec) got call from Tracker people  -- " you have a flat battery on your motorhome".  Sure enough I did, could  only open drivers door with key, not c/locking fob. Battery dead.  Called Peugeot Assistance, they started vehicle with jump leads. Took vehicle for a good run.  AA   Suggested Tracker drained battery, but to be safe booked vehicle in with my Peugeot dealer for Battery check. They fully  charged battery then did a MIDTRONICS test. Told me Check revealed "Battery Good".

My query is   1. Could a Tracker system discharge a battery to the extent that it is "flat" in only 2 weeks?
                     2. If answer to 1. is Yes, how come battery was fine after Canada trip i.e. 24/25 days?

My Autosleeper dealer was convinced it was a duff battery. I will be contacting them on Monday to report the Peugeot dealers findings.

In meantime any help, opinions etc.really welcome!! Sorry for long winded tale of woe.  

Royal Rich.

Hi RR

1. Yes
2. Because it wasn't as cold in September

It's a real problem - happened to us exactly as to you.  Since then we've left the Malvern on electric hook up and no further problems.  I'd been really worried that it had knackered the vehicle battery but we've been using it OK since without any issue.

Hope you can find a solution.   Fiona.

If you have the ec500 power box and you have been turning it off when not being used, then the solar only charges the leisure battery. If left switched on and put into 'smart' charging then the batteries are charged in alternating 4 hour periods.

80 w solar panel.

See answer above, I edited it while you were posting.

Thanks Paulmold - might give that a try though I am not sure we get enough solar in winter up here.

Yes I too thank you Paulmold for your advice. I also think we do not get enough "solar" power in Winter where we live either!!

Thank you too to all other people who have sent advice/comments. All taken on board.

We don’t get enough sunlight in winter either but a lot depends on where the van is parked (shade/shadow) as well as the weather.

In my experience the 80w panel will not keep both leisure and starter batteries fully charged during winter. Even on very bright days the sun is too low in the sky to give really useful charging for any real length of time.
Turn the Ec500 off and as said solar is transfered to leisure only. Which seems daft really as in this mode the leisure batteries have no drain on them. Would have been much better for charge to go to the starter battery when EC turned off ( unless there is some techi reason this is not possible ).
So leave on hook up or put on once a week For top up, or increase solar. I do a lot of off grid wild camping so have increased my solar to 400w. On bright but no sun days in winter I am still seeing 1.5 to 2.5 amps. On sunny days up to 3.5/4 amps. In the height of summer  I could power a small town ! but I have to trade one off against the other. When parked up on drive I do not need to worry even during dull winter days.

I understand what you are saying Peter, but surely if I disconnect the vehicle battery via the ignition key ( as recommended by Peugeot) the Tracker System will not function? My insurance company will not like that as it will make the vehicle vulnerable. Having a Tracker this time of year is a double edged sword?

Fair point Peter, thank you for your advice/comments. Will check with my insurance (caravan Guard).

Would you really want to isolate the vehicle battery, even though a manufactures fitment ? Your insurance will stipulate manufactures alarm fitted and if you have declared a tracker as well I would not feel confident making a claim if the worst was to happen.
Even if covered would you want the agravation and trouble involved if again the worst was to happen.

I 'only' have 100w solar panel, which keeps the vehicle battery and two X 95ah leisure batteries fully charged while on the drive..I have just been to the van now, dull, raining but just sufficient charge to overcome the alarm and immobiliser and all fully charged.

I have a simple dual channel regulator feeding both sets of batteries in the ratio I choose.

of course, I dont have a Sargeant PSU, nor does the solar system go anywhere near any other electrical systems, it just focusses on charging the batteries...

ok, I wouldn't last much more than three days off grid in this weather as there's certainly not enough sunshine juice around to offset tv, water pump, heat fan use etc....

but, IMHO, most installations (that don't involve a Sargeant PSU to manage the solar charge) in reasonable daylight should be able to keep a cab and leisure battery fully charged while parked on a driveway.

if it doesn't/can't, then perhaps there's too much of a draw from other (non relevant) electronics.....

..but as Peter says, if it involves an EC 500 and you have an alarm and no EHU supply and you need your immobiliser/tracker activated you will be more than struggling .....

in order to monitor/manage the distribution of solar power, AS have decided that it should be carried out by the on board Sargeant PSUs...
the 500 series is notoriously power hungry (as stated earlier) and the 700 'might' be a bit better (albeit with its own caveats), yet those with 'stand alone' solar systems don't seem to be affected in the same way...
I'm certainly not.

whilst the thread may be 'about' particular AS models, and their default solar installations, it is perfectly possible to have a solar system that is far more efficient than that being fitted to many AS vans....it's also perfectly possible to modify an AS/Sargeant set up so as to bypass the Sargeant PSU, leaving the owner with more options when parked without EHU.
 
I don't own an AS (not likely to) but if I did and I suffered the solar/battery issues being trotted out on this forum regularly, I would be talking to my local solar company and doing something about it.

If I read the OP's intro to the problem correctly - the vehicle is parked on their drive - in which case, as Fiona has written above, why not have it on permanent power hook up? 
I know that Peter #1 is not a real fan of this option for fear of cooking the batteries but with the Sargent EC500 Power Control System they clearly say that "the charger can be left switched on continuously" (I did confirm this with Sargent technical support). 
It's "smart charge" design feature will deliver a float charge once the battery is in the fully charged state. And has been mentioned previously - given the numerous features (trackers, ECU's etc.) drawing current all of the time whilst in store - the batteries will fluctuate in use and therefore not be in any danger of over charge. 
I personally can vouch for this approach, as the EC500 is fitted to my van and having now used the permanent EHU method whilst laid up at home for the last 4+ years I have never had a problem with any of the batteries.
As has also been said - taking a vehicle out for the occasional short run every 2 or 3 weeks is not really sufficient to properly top up the batteries. Indeed you are likely to be using more power on some days if you have wipers, heaters, lights, etc operating and besides this time of year you are possibly contaminating the underside of the vehicle with salt!

Hyperthetical yes ... however concerns still remain until quantified. As already mentioned,I personally would not the agrevation if claims, waiting for settlement, purchase and possible wait for new van etc etc.

Why are not AS telling us (in their user handbooks) the best way to use the systems they are fitting?

They do, given the constraints of the system. However as already posted in winter the solar panel can’t cope especially with the power robbing ec500 switched on.

but owners with these set ups don't necessarily have to be governed by the constraints of the fitted systems.....do they?
while its 'nice' to have the solar system going through the Sargeant PSU for (apparent) 'controllability' and monitoring, it's not so useful if it negates the benefit of even some winter sunshine.
similarly, handbook recommendations to isolate vehicle batteries is fine for it not going flat, but not so good for powering alarms, trackers, immobilisers...
not everyone has a handy EHU on their drive or in storage, so getting the most out of a solar system to maintain batteries and comply with insurance conditions is a must.
routing the solar feed into a stand alone dual channel controller (not expensive) instead of into the Sargeant unit (it used to be P14 in the back of the one we had) is a simple way of avoiding its foibles.
alternatively, leave the set up as is but just set the EC in shut down, allow it to feed the leisure battery and fit a Battery Master to trickle feed the vehicle battery.
Battery issues seem to be one of the most regular topics on this forum and we are now in the time of year where there will be a glut of similar postings.
yes, we know that this is how AS have designed the system, but it's poor in its execution and customers, rightly, expect more.
if I had a van with an EC500 which was dragging down the usefulness of a fitted solar system, especially in winter when the van may be laid up on the drive for longer periods, I'd be looking hard at changing it to a simple, stand alone set up and bypassing the resource hungry PSU.

obviously, owners will need to decide if the smart? charging function of a device like EC 500 is worth having, bearing in mind the constraints it puts on usability (especially in storage periods) for some owners...
if it isn't (and only the owner can know this) then it should perfectly possible to disconnect the Sargeant solar connections to all batteries, and to install connections from a dual channel 'smart' charge controller...
this is exactly the set up that many non Sargeant vans employ.
my own van has a similar set up, with Spurs to the control panel purely to give battery level readings.
the smart 240v charger is not affected by my solar set up either, merely making the usual decisions on where to place any required charge.

re the Sargent system getting its self 'confused', what happens with vans with ec500s that do not come with a solar panel? perhaps the ec500 has a 'no solar' setting?

surely the ec500 is perfectly able to manage any 240v charger input based on charge levels if no solar system is present.

any owner of such a van would be at liberty to fit whatever solar set up they liked, perhaps one employing the ec500 but perhaps not....say a dual controller system that does not use the ec500.

this would be the same situation in a van (as in the OP) where the connection of the solar panel to the ec500 was disconnected and the output of the ec500 to all batteries were disconnected as in my earlier post.

I have been highly impressed with the many forum members who have taken the trouble to give advice/opinions etc. on this topic. Many,many thanks to all of you. Fiona made a good comment about the temp. now versus last September. I now have a lot of info. to digest. Luckily I have access to an external power point for EHU. The ideas of Peter v Bolero Boy make interesting reading!  Thanks to all again.