MTPLM vs MIRO

Hi All,

 a bit of help with clarification please. Im currently looking into getting a van and as I passed by test after 1997 I dont have the C1 part of my licence so im limited to vans up to 3,500 kgs.
 Ive like the idea of an autosleeper wilton as it has the layout im looking for but im also looking at other vans too.

I came across a newer auto-trail apache which is listed as below:
MTPLM 3,250
MIRO 3,650


to my understanding the MTPLM is the van basically stripped and MIRO (mass in running order) is the van generally "full" with people, luggage etc etc.

my question is am I able to drive the above van on my licence? to my understanding im able to drive anything up to 3,500 kgs but does that include contents? for example the auto-sleeper wilton I like has a MTPLM of 3,500 but obviously once loaded would push us up probably towards the 3,800 area.


any help would be appreciated that.

Hi Chris

The MTPLM includes a user payload, which in this case appears to be 317kg, so you have that much leeway before you become illegal.

It's not the biggest payload, and for that reason you may want to continue looking. Even our little Nuevo has a payload of more than double that figure.

317kg sounds like quite a lot, but I think you might find it quite restricting. Don't take my word for it though - you need advice from someone who lives with a similar payload.

Hi Dave,

 thanks for the above, so if we say the Auto-trail there would be an amount of payload included in the 3,250 (lets say 300kgs for arguments sake)

we'd have that 300kgs plus the extra 250 kgs (3500 - 3250)

sorry for the stupid questions but all the abbreviations are confusing, when looking on the .gov website they talk about MAM which doesnt help much either - and thats before we talk about GVW!

I'm not certain either Chris, but there are members on here who are real experts.

Rather than confuse both of us ( ) I'll back off and leave it to them.

These definitions may help your understanding

What does it mean? 

Individual cars, caravans and trailers can weigh different amounts, depending on their specification and whether they are carrying a load or not. Unfortunately, there are no standard definitions for many vehicle weights (or masses, see below) but here are a few commonly quoted weights with their normal definitions.

If you have a scientific background and know the difference between mass and weight, please note that the industry assumes they mean the same thing, both being measured in kilogrammes (kg).

• Unladen Weight - The weight of a vehicle when not carrying a load and excluding fuel or batteries, if it's electrically powered.
  
  

• Kerbweight The Mass in Running Order (MIRO) of a car. This is defined in European Directive 95/48/EC as the "mass of the vehicle with bodywork in running order (including coolant, oils, fuel, tools, spare wheel and driver)". However, some car manufacturers do not include the weight allowance for the driver (75kg) in their kerbweight figures.
  
  
• Mass in service The Mass in Running Order (MIRO), or kerbweight including a 75kg driver, of a car as it left the factory. It excludes any components added by the dealer. This figure is given in the car's Vehicle Registration Certificate V5C (log book) for newer vehicles.
  
  
• Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM), Maximum Gross Weight (MGM) or Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) The maximum a vehicle is allowed to weigh when it's fully loaded.
  
  

• Gross Train Weight (GTW)The maximum an outfit, such as a combination of a car and caravan, is allowed to weigh when fully loaded.
  
  
• Towing Limit - The maximum weight a vehicle is designed to tow up a 12 per cent hill (1 in 8).
  
  

• Mass in Running Order (MIRO) - The weight of a caravan ready for the road, without personal effects. See "Changes to the MIRO", page 4.
  
  
• User Payload - The weight of extras that can be carried in or on the caravan.
  
  
• Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM) The Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM), normally applied to a caravan.
  
  

Very helpful paul thanks very much, im taking it from the above that the MTPLM and MAM are the same thing so as long as we're getting a van that has a MTPLM of 3,500 we should be legal. I guess its worth getting it fully loaded once bought and sticking it on a weighing bridge!

Mike187 wrote:
I should check those weights. MIRO should be less than MTPLM

Agreed - I can't see how the MIRO for a vehicle can ever be greater than its MTPLM!

Chris, don't forget that each axle will have its own maximum weight limit.

I would guess the numbers for the Apache are the wrong way around, with the MTPLM at 3650kg and the MIRO at 3250kg.

if this is the case, first point, you can't drive it as its over 3500kg.
it 'could' be down plated to 3500kg (a 'paper' exercise) but this would leave you with only 250kg of payload....
add OH and a tank of water and that's 2/3rd gone...
most folk on forums like MMM would think that even 500kg is marginal for touring couple...
remember, the MIRO won't include any options/extras fitted to the van....solar panel, satellite system, cab upgrades, auto transmission, etc all add to the weight and detract from your payload....
if you're restricted to 3500 then (in general) the larger the van, the heavier it will be and the less payload you'll have (as you can't upgrade the MTPLM)....
so, small(er) vans would be good, but it depends on who and what you want to put in it.....poeple?....(consider number of seatbelts) how many....they eat payload as they weigh plenty and also more folk bring more kit....
add in BBQ, water carriers (if used), chairs/tables (for all these folk) bikes?, awning, windbreak.....tools....food....books, electronic kit, Chargers...clothes (these weigh far more than ypud imagine...

my advice (despite this being a MH forum) would always to investigate a car/caravan combo where all those people and stuff can be carried safely in a largish car and a caravan will have plenty of space...
however, if it's just a couple, there are many smaller MHthat can easily be run at 3500 with decent payload....
a nice 6m PVC might do the job...