Brexit means Brexit

Hey there folks - yes it is your favourite - Stop Brexit Poster - John&Maggie as per ‘aye up me ducks’
Yes you better believe it - been away in the MH - I'm Back. Pray; what newsletter do you refer. Was it the one about the Blue Passport - an expression of our independence and sovereignty - to be manufactured in France by a Franco-Dutch company. Hilarious.

Please supply a link - thanks John

Paul wrote in his 15,396th post, Wow Dude, regarding John&Maggie:
 “----all their posts have disappeared. Also if you check their profile, it shows 40+ posts but if you click on see all posts there are only 2 shown which are linked to a John, a completely different member, not John&Maggie.

It would seem that Paul should know a thing or two about web posts particularly as he was in the admin of our forum and has spent so many hours, weeks, months - years even, on this website alone. I was gob-smacked, shaken to the core by so many posts. How many hours does this equate to; not only posting but scouring the web for posts to respond to? I do not do social media facebook, twitter and the rest or online gaming, so perhaps this may be normal - though I am still shocked.
Please refer to the signature of our CC moderator! 

When I checked I still had 21 posts after the ban covering diverse subjects - so what on Earth is Paul banging on about this time? I haven’t a clue!  I can send you a screen-shot if this helps or show you how to obtain correct information if you like?
Seems like just as with the Brexiteers, I am continually having to correct them, pointing to facts - and then getting banned for it.
In a light hearted manner could I suggest that Paul and his sycophants should join the circus act at No 10 where being so good with inventing fake facts they could write the next instalment of Bozo the Clown and his IOM kipper? Descriptions not mine but those of MPs in his own Tory Party.

“If you want to understand why it is that we must leave the EU and the advantages of coming out, I want you to consider this kipper which has been presented to me just now by the editor of a national newspaper who received it from a kipper smoker in the Isle of Man who is utterly furious because after decades of sending kippers like this through the post, he has had his costs massively increased by Brussels bureaucrats who insist that each kipper must be accompanied by this, a plastic ice pillow,”
“Pointless, expensive, environmentally damaging health and safety, ladies and gentlemen. When we come out therefore, we will not only be able to end this damaging regulatory overkill, but we will also be able to do things to boost Britain’s economy and we will be able to establish an identity as a truly global Britain and get our mojo back.”

Not only completely untrue, but orchestrated and choreographed for the Brexiteers, Daily Wail readers, Stun picture gawpers and Jeremy Whine bleaters, receiving a standing ovation by the poor misguided and mentally challenged of the invited audience and members of the media. Isle of Man not even in EU or UK for that matter. EU has no temperature rules for Smoked Kippers or any other processed fish - only fresh fish for all our safety!
The rules quoted by the circus act are British rules!

Hands up those of you who got taken in by Bozo the Clown circus act on TV and his IOM kipper? Hook line and sinker - I guess? Please excuse the pun. 

Sadly it is this same circus act now in No10 that orchestrated the Vote Leave Campaign - you deserve everything you get. Please don’t ask if there is a sketch of a plan with any detail - three years on!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49030873

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-kipper-rant-eu-rules-uk-commission-speech-a9010436.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/18/boris-johnson-claims-about-kippers-fishy-brussels-says


I suspect you can watch this circus act with the kipper on Youtube and elsewhere. Bozo made a career inventing EU myths as a journalist until he was sacked for inventing a false quotation. Not to mention the U turns. Check out his U turn on Trump! Now PM - Yikes! 

What the blazes is the matter with you,? we need someone like Boris to shake this country up.
I voted to leave and the sooner the better, if it had gone the other way, the referendum that is , would  the leavers  have wanted another referendum.no, it is called democracy, perhaps you have never heard of that. 

I have never heard of such a load of claptrap as your post expresses. 

Never heard  of Sir Winston Churchill I take it.? this country needs optimism and to  get going again, it is the likes of your attitude is why we are where we are  three years down the line rather than where we  should be.out.

Get over it .

The majority voted brexit.
If you cant cope with that fact then move abroad.
Simples.

John and Maggie, it sounds as though you have great experience of International business and as such I very much respect your point of view, would you mind enlightening of this experience as it would surely add weight to your argument?
Thankyou
'hog

What an entertaining thread! Do keep it up. It'll shorten the winter.

Cymro

Enough already!  I surely can’t be alone in thinking that political discussion has no place in a motorhome forum?  It won’t end well and it’s not as if there’s a shortage of other outlets for this sort of stuff.  

Will the next Moderator to come along please take it down?  There’s enough summer madness as it is, let’s not have it on here as well!  Get out there and enjoy your motorhomes.

Kemerton-bath wrote:Enough already!  I surely can’t be alone in thinking that political discussion has no place in a motorhome forum?  It won’t end well and it’s not as if there’s a shortage of other outlets for this sort of stuff.  

Will the next Moderator to come along please take it down?  There’s enough summer madness as it is, let’s not have it on here as well!  Get out there and enjoy your motorhomes.

Hear, hear!  

I agree this thread will never end well, but the clue is in the topic title, we don't have to read it.
Al.

bikeralw wrote:I agree this thread will never end well, but the clue is in the topic title, we don't have to read it.
Al.

You're right, of course, Al.  But curiosity kind of sucks you in to read it!  Maybe I just need to learn to exercise more self control - I've managed to resist posting my views on the actual subject so far.

Unfortunately, as we had already discovered in Scotland, referendums (referenda?) are by definition divisive, particularly when the split between sides is fairly close so discussion inevitably becomes polarised.

I vigorously argue my point of view on relevant political platforms but like many on whichever side, I've become sick of it dragging on and on. So I seek escape on forums relating to my non-political interests and hobbies, like this one, and would hate for them to become tainted.

Just my view, however, and I respect the rights of those of different opinions to air them as they deem appropriate, so I'll shut up and try now to resist this thread.  But as Oscar Wilde said, I can resist anything but temptation . . .  

It’s the insults and total disrespect for anyone else's point of view that make me want to hit the report button but I see someone else got there first. Oh, well…

Tinwheeler wrote:It’s the insults and total disrespect for anyone else's point of view that make me want to hit the report button but I see someone else got there first. Oh, well…

It wasn't me Tinwheeler, but I agree entirely with your comments so it could have been.

Staggering arrogance and self importance that achieves nothing other than to anger and inflame.

Now I think of it, isn't that a pretty good description of a Troll?

Gromit wrote:

Tinwheeler wrote:It’s the insults and total disrespect for anyone else's point of view that make me want to hit the report button but I see someone else got there first. Oh, well…

It wasn't me Tinwheeler, but I agree entirely with your comments so it could have been.

Staggering arrogance and self importance that achieves nothing other than to anger and inflame.

Now I think of it, isn't that a pretty good description of a Troll?

As long as somebody did it, that’s all that matters. 

Funnily enough, the T word was on the tip of my tongue. Intended disruption sums it up.

Hi “John&Maggie”

I’m not quite sure what your problem is, but if you are just here to rub people up the wrong way I suggest you just delete your account and take your dribble elsewhere. As has already been suggested by others your behaviour and comments are a good indicator or warning sign of a troll. 

Most members here are partial to a bit of light hearted banter, but naming and personally attacking members with your extremely ‘personal views’ is really not on. Can I request you refrain from the pointless, rather silly and lengthy posts regarding your biased view of the E.U. and Brexit please, we are not used to irrational rants like this here. Find a Brexit related forum elsewhere if this is (as it seems) your sole desire. 

I also have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make regarding my signature, not that I actually care, I just find it very bizarre along with your senseless comments regarding Paul. 

If you wish to remain part of this community and participate in friendly discussion with our super members then you are more than welcome, but if you are just here to cause division (think very carefully what you say herein) then don’t be surprised if your account is removed permanently, which we only do as a last resort and get absolutely no pleasure in doing.


CC

Kemerton-bath wrote:Enough already!  I surely can’t be alone in thinking that political discussion has no place in a motorhome forum?  It won’t end well and it’s not as if there’s a shortage of other outlets for this sort of stuff.  

Will the next Moderator to come along please take it down?  There’s enough summer madness as it is, let’s not have it on here as well!  Get out there and enjoy your motorhomes.

With respect, what gives one member the right to deny others the freedom to discuss any topic they wish, there is no obligation to participate or even open this thread it is clearly marked what it contains. 
I hope the mods do not decide to take it down.
I have asked John & Maggie a perfectly reasonable and legitimate question in what experience they have of international business and European affairs to qualify the statements they have made, no malice, no rudeness and nothing contentious.
With that information I can compare it with my own experience and come to a conclusion via the medium of reasonable debate, if not on an open forum by PM if necessary. I find the whole matter of Brexit fascinating, relevant and not every topic here relates to motorhomes, it would be a very boring place if it did.
They may care to answer this question or may indeed be a troll but without that knowledge who am I to cast aspersions on there opinions.

With regard to daisy mae's comments in my opinion how right you are. The UK needs a kick up the pants, some progressive planning and to change its lethargic attitude. Imagine if 70 years ago when the Prime Minister was told "They have 3000 combat aircraft Sir and we have 650 fighters plus Ginger's sopwith camel" he turned his back and said "That is way to difficult, better give them what they want." Heavens above we would all be driving Hymers!!

Why do the popular press and opponents of the Government insist on trying to derail the train even before the driver has started the engine, must be a modern British thing.Boris is in the style of Trump, you may not like him but have you seen what Trump has done for the US economy, he may not always get it right but then as the saying goes "The man that never made a mistake never made anything" If he fails then vote BoJo out but come on back him whilst he makes the effort, support you Country don't destroy it.

The bureaucrats of Brussels know full well that if they allow the UK to leave with a great deal then many other members will also be knocking at the door so that is why they are scared witless to do so. The UK is therefore controlled by the very power she voted to reject. If the UK cannot get an acceptable deal by the due date then it must leave the EU 'deal or no deal'. That is what has been democratically voted for. Sure it will cause short term disruption but there are no problems only opportunities.

Second referendum, why not make it best of three and don't whinge you didn't know the first time round what you were voting for, if you didn't you should have stayed at home and left it to those that did.
Reverse the decision, that is not very democratic is it.

So there you have it UK, look forward and outward, show a bit of can do spirit and the UK or what is left of it will go great places....

and please don't deport me back to Canada for writing this!

Hi Groundhog you make some valid points.

It will only be taken down if the divisive behaviour of John&Maggie continues... it’s fine to debate, but when it becomes personal then it just creates a bad atmosphere. 

The forum has suffered enough as it is over recent months, without it becoming any more unpleasant. CC

With you there CC!
To me personal comment like that just debases the perpetrator and is simply not warranted. Thanks for keeping the thread open let's hope for some intelligent and considered comment.
'hog

CC wrote:The forum has suffered enough as it is over recent months, without it becoming any more unpleasant. CC

Quite so!!

CC - thanks for taking the stand you have, well said.

Groundhog - I'm possibly missing something but I still fail to see the attraction of giving airtime to the politics of such a divisive topic as Brexit on what is, by definition, a leisure-pursuit forum.  We're bombarded with it on all fronts, so I had hoped this might be a safe refuge from all the madness.

Whatever, I don't intend adding further to the thread and will pass it by in future.  The forum's core business of the MH lifestyle is happily a lot less contentious - for the most part!

Tim

Groundhog wrote: John and Maggie, it sounds as though you have great experience of International business and as such I very much respect your point of view, would you mind enlightening of this experience as it would surely add weight to your argument? Thank you 'hog.

Have no idea what gave you that impression? Certainly - will try to be brief so as not to bore the pants off but as a design engineer since 1966 it has been a lifetime of ups and downs but now happily retired; well out of it. Now have a mint Lancashire which the wife and I love to bits. Keeping on subject: Whilst working in Birmingham in the 1970’s I got wind of a design contract in Antwerp, Belgium. I phoned and was offered the job immediately “can you start on Monday, just get yourself out here.” Wow I need to give a weeks notice! “Just get yourself out here.” So with a ferry and a couple of train rides I found myself in Antwerp. First day at American GM Opel Kadet and Ascona plant, was greeted by the Top Manager: If you cannot do zee vork you will be fired. If you cannot fit in wiv zee peeple you will be fired. Giving a list of reasons for being fired followed by “you can go now.” Pretty normal in contract design - if you can’t cut it you are out - sometimes at midday! However I loved it; salary tripled or quadrupled, part of the jet-set though having never flown before. 21 British design engineers and two project engineers from Antwerp. Had to open a Belgian bank account and was liable for taxation in both countries dealing in Franks and Stirling. Two trains a day arrived from Germany into the plant at Churchill Dock where “a World First” computer system segregated these JIT components so that different models of cars could be built on the same production line. Flying back and forth with Caledonia Airways with those lovely tartan outfits - trains all over Europe. Amsterdam and the Melk Weg for the weekend, flat in the city - fantastic.
Mostly self employed and probably the best draughtsman in England until I found one better so I employed him immediately in my design agency. I can claim to be the only draughtsman to have an engineering drawing in the Tate Gallery - another story. Spent a lot of time working for defence industry missile systems, armoured vehicles and submersibles etc. Not to sure about seeing them - Warrior etc deployed in the Middle East wars or checking my car and bike for explosive devices every day.
Refused £1000 per week to work in Detroit in 1980 - yuk, didn’t fancy working on piles of lard with four wheels. Even the Americans don’t want them. Didn’t fancy eating their horrid food either. Growth hormones and GM cereals etc, yikes - pass me the dog food.
Invented tilting car in 1997 and HD in America patented it in 2005. Told by all experts that it would not work. Published against my wishes in a magazine. Great taking your hands off the steering wheel at 120mph mid corner as the car was in complete harmony with the road. Yes a self steering car to some degree. Modified copies appeared in Europe and USA. Humbled to be asked by world class engineer Tony Foale - an Australian living in Spain as UK to cold - to proof read his book “Motorcycle Handling And Chassis Design” “The Art and Science” I also invented before all this an invention to allow motorcycles to corner harder than ever before and have been in discussions with Triumph and the gods of design at Ducati. They do not have lengthy discussions with idiots.
Lets quickly skip to 2001 installing SolidWorks 3D CAD and CAM at company making fuelling systems for racing cars, bikes and drones. International Race Car exhibition at the NEC where people from around world quietly queue for an audience with the Boss. My first design was for fuel injection throttle bodies for two litre Toyota race series in South America. As with all race industries you eventually burn out with two Touring Car drivers from Germany in our works begging me to design and make fuelling system for their Volvo on top of an already excessive workload - enough. Fond memories though as you can conceive a design in your mind and translate that into a CAD model. This can then be scaled up 78/77 and patterns machined by CNC CAM - filled with glue sand and then the black art of casting where you pour liquid alloy and hope for the best waiting to see what your brain has produced after cooling and knocking off the sand, fingers crossed.
Took a new contract here in Derby and married for first time at 60 to Maggie. The Chinese were inviting suppliers from around the world to supply designs for ND crack testing in their rail network. To cut it short my unique design was chosen after much strife caused by the American designers openly saying it wouldn’t work even after sending detailed drawings, CAD models, simulations and animations; they were too thick to understand it. Next thing I know is the CEO from New York standing by my workstation first thing on Monday morning. After much thoughtful examination of my design - contractor not staff - he backed me against his staff in USA. After a trip to China to test existing equipment the Chinese sent a delegation of their top engineers, physicists and scientists around the world to examine the design prototypes. I was terrified trying to explain a virtual pivot through the interpreter then a look of realisation came over one of them there was much excitement and soon they on the ground in their suits scrabbling under their bogie. Without turning a wheel in testing I crated the parts and supervised the fitting in Baoji flying out business class again as a self employed engineer. Their head of engineering said in front of everyone how much he appreciated my engineering and would I take five of his best students from the Academy of Railway Sciences under my wing. I gracefully accepted say that it was my distinct pleasure to be invited by him to help ensure the safety of Chinese people on his railway. It was strange to be the foreigner as when walking with hundreds of workers at lunchtime as they had never seen a European before in the flesh. For some reason I was treated like a rock star in China ferried around in Limos expenses and hotel bills found etc. despite my protestations that I was just a Black Country engineer doing his job and no special attention was needed. The CEO and his directors found this to be hilarious for some reason and cried with laughter. On the last evening a Limo was ordered to take me up into the forested mountains above the White river and Baoji city. After a walk in the forest we arrived at a restaurant where a banquet had been prepared with lots of bottles of neat spirit. Next day a Limo was ordered to take me to Xi’an for the flight back to Beijing. They asked if I had enjoyed eating the Bear Meat the previous evening - reserved for VIPs.
Wound up to 65 at a company where I was working for the Saudi Royal family - weird to specify gold in the material column and to work with those fantastic mathematical art decorations as seen at Alhambra in Spain.
Dragged out of retirement three times to sort out university qualified engineers messes and prepare drawings to EU standard that an engineer who has to machine it can understand. Degrees are handed out free with a box of cornflakes these days. I am entirely self taught but surrounded by engineering solutions that have gone before if only they would look?
Will that do or shall I send an old cv? I have left out all the Nuclear, special purpose machinery, printing presses, rock crushers, press tools, die casting and jet turbine blades and a shed load more.

Will this help me defend myself - will I be allowed to defend myself - will these personal attacks on me which are breaking the rules stop - look at the face - am I bovered?  What gives one member the right to deny others the freedom to discuss any topic they wish, there is no obligation to participate or even open this thread it is clearly marked what it contains. 

With respect

We are clearly on a different page, or, maybe a different planet. I thank you for answering my question so concisely.

I am afraid I do not agree with any of the sentiments you have expressed regarding Brexit, share none of your views expressed in the PM you sent me regarding the mods, in fact we are so far apart there is little point in any further discussion.

Enjoy your Lancashire and wherever your travels take you.

I have no intention of joining a debate on brexit  at this stage, there seems little point as the vote has taken place and for the time being we will not be voting again, but if experience in engineering and business counts for anything I note a chap called Dyson who has had a modicum of success takes a contrary view to John and Maggie

Mrgeoffrey wrote:I have no intention of joining a debate on brexit  at this stage, there seems little point as the vote has taken place and for the time being we will not be voting again, but if experience in engineering and business counts for anything I note a chap called Dyson who has had a modicum of success takes a contrary view to John and Maggie

Yes, and so enthused by Brexit that he's leaving the Uk to live in Singapore after buying one of the most expensive houses on the island 

...having already moved some if not all of his production outside the UK already - mostly to Singapore, where his cars are due to be manufactured too. Design is said to still be done in the UK, but if he's already jumped ship, how long will that last?

Dyson is a known supporter of Brexit though accused of hypocrisy for leaving the UK. His electric vehicles will be sold worldwide and the US for example will be a major market. The EU has no trade deal with the US. Why wouldn't he move production to somewhere cheaper and potentially with better trade connections.