Trident - T5 vs T4

Myself and I better half (and our newly acquired 'Hearing Dog' Betsy) are thinking of upgrading our late T4 Trident to a T5 Trident.

Main reasons are:

- Automatic gearbox (wife is deaf and struggles to hear engine for gear changes)
- Euro V? engine so we can visit London
- Bit more power (not that our 2.4 is particularly sluggish)
- Cab air-con
- Other bells and whistles that we'd like - air-con, cruise control, central locking, electric windows...

But we are wondering what less obvious differences there are?
We are a little worried about the storage in the T5 - we have not looked at one properly yet but there looks to be less cupboards.

Has anyone here moved from a T4 to a T5? Any observations - not just about storage - but general owning and driving?

Any comments would be very welcome!

Thanks
Steve

Hi Steve
I've had a number of T4s &T5s over the years. These are my views

T4 trident
2.5tdi is a fabulous engine with great torque.
The interior is a high quality (if a little old fashioned), and will stand the test if time.
Storage is very good for a swb van
The seats in particular the rear bench is very comfortable.
MPG is very good, 38 easily possible.
Very few had air con.
It's probably the best small van conversion ever produced by A/S
However the newest van will be nearly ten years old by now.

T5 Trident
DSG box is superb.
2.5 or the later 2.0 engines are more refined, but are not as tolerant to 'being in the wrong gear' as the T4 tdi. 
Interior is more modern but not as robust due to the use of laminates, rather than real wood, (same in all A/S vans the days).
Storage is similar to the T4. The later T5 have water heating which is a waste of valuable space in a small van.
Rear bench is not as comfortable as the T4.
MPG is similar to T4 but remember T5 has more safety features and is heavier.
Lots of drivers comforts, air con, cruise etc.
Slightly easier to drive than T4. Although steering is heavier on T5.
Still being made so depending on your budget you can buy a good condition vehicle.

Hope this helps a bit. Both are great vans.

Regards
John

John knows more about them than I do, but a few other observations:

The T5 was also available as a 1.9Tdi - it's Ok but if you currently have a 2.4 T4 you will probably find one of those a bit underpowered, and they only have a 5-speed box so not so great for cruising. That may be irrelevant in this context though, as I don't think the 1.9 engine was used by AS.

The DSG box is indeed good (mine has one) but prior to 2010 an auto T5 will have a conventional box (though with Tiptronic sequential shifting) rather than a DSG. My own personal view is that if you like to just leave the box to do its stuff then a conventional box is better, and if you prefer to sometimes override what the box does then a DSG is probably better.

A facelifted T5 (post 2010, with the 2.0TDi engine) will probably have slightly better mpg than your T4, but IMO the downside is that they are very complex vehicles - possibly too complex for a long-term owner's wallet's good. For example, they all have DPF's, whereas earlier vans do not (though sadly it's not as simple as "facelifted vans have a DPF and pre-facelifted do not").

Thanks for the replies!

We have our eye on a 2006 2.5tdi. Sounds like it would be the tiptronic rather than the DSG - and shouldn't have the DPF etc of the later engines. I have driven the Fiat Ducato auto (2012 vehicle) was very impressed. I think that was a tiptronic type system - we just put it in drive and forgot about it.

Sounds like it could be a good vehicle...

Steve

Some of the 2.5 engines had a DPF too, but I ~think~ not until around 2008.

The only thing that I've heard can be a problem with that engine is that they do not like to run on the wrong spec oil (it can cause the camshaft to wear very rapidly), so a full service history from somewhere reputable would be important.

I wouldn't have any great worries about the pre-DSG auto box. Essentially it's based on technology that's been around since the 1950's, albeit with many refinements. The DSG box on the other hand is effectively two manual gearboxes side by side with a computer controller. It's not designed to be repaired/serviced in any major way, and a replacement costs more than £5k, so it's a very expensive problem to have if you're unlucky...

Thanks Mojo - that's very good to know. I'll check the service history carefully on the vehicle if we go ahead.

We currently own a Fiat Grande Punto automatic - it sounds like this is the same technology. I think basically it's a manual gearbox - just with a computer doing the gear changes! It works very very well and we both like it a lot.  I think the Fiat Ducato auto and the Fird Transit Duetto auto we used to borrow were both the same tech. Probably not as quick on gear changes as a DSG - but very smooth and easy to drive.

Thanks again,
Steve

Hi again Steve
Just to clarify a bit, DPFs were fitted to T5s from mid 2006. Personally I've had 3 T5s with DPFs fitted and not encountered any clogging up of the filter. I'm not aware it's a particular problem on the T5, but I know some vehicle manufacturers do have problems.

On another front seeing you are looking at a 2006 vehicle, one of the issue with the earlier T5s 2005-2007 was leaking side windows. This was a huge embarrassment to vw and took them approx 2 years to revise the design. This should have been carried out under vw warranty, but a lot is going to depend on the owners records. Water marks on the sliding door trim panel were a give away sign of the problem. 

If you like your Punto autobox you with find the pre dsg a delight to drive. 

Let us know how you get on. Good luck.
Regards
John

Thanks John - that's very helpful.

Is there a way of telling if the window has been 'fixed' by looking at it?

Steve

Steve 
I've been trying to think of the differences between the two window types and I can't remember how to identify them. Not much help. I don't have a T5 at present so can't even advise on the newer design. I can only suggest to find a 2008+ vehicle (to be safe) and compare or .....check the service history of the 2006 one you are looking at.
Sorry

John

From personal experience I wouldn't put too much faith in the "improved" window anyway - my T5 was built in early 2013 and the sliding door window leaks terribly.

Just to conclude this thread - we are now the round owners of a lovely 2008 Trident in silver which we have named Poppy! Very very pleased with her. Bought her from Todds Motorhomes nr Preson who have been very helpful.

Got a few things to organise and sort - all the cupboards are slightly different sizes so need to reorganise things - but we'll get there!

Thanks again for all the help and advice. I think I'll be posting some T5 questions shortly!

Steve

Many congratulations  enjoy your new van

John