Ferry costs and vehicle length

Our 2001 Symbol is 5.2m long, but only 5.0m without the rear step. The ferries we are looking at to get over to the isle of Mull later this year treat a motorhome of 5m or under as a car, with a substantial price hike for motorhomes between 5m and 8m long.

Has anyone modified a Symbol or Symphony so the step can be either easily removed and refitted, or maybe folded down, then folded back up for use? If anyone has done this, I would be grateful for any design detail, to avoid "reinventing the wheel".

Thanks in advance

Mikebro  

Hi Mike, cant you just unbolt it for the holiday and use a portable step.
This has got me thinking as I have a box on the cycle rack so if i used the ferry I would remove the box and store it in the toilet.

Best regards, Mike   

Flying High wrote:Hi Mike, cant you just unbolt it for the holiday and use a portable step.
This has got me thinking as I have a box on the cycle rack so if i used the ferry I would remove the box and store it in the toilet.

Best regards, Mike   

Hi Mike,

Unfortunately there are bolts holding on the right angled step support brackets that are fixed to the van floor.  I can't get at the bolt heads because the A/S habitation floor is on top of them. Unless they are captive, I could end up with them going round and round after I've loosened the nuts. I could cut the brackets back to in front of the van's rear bumper (thus getting back to the 5.0m of the base vehicle), but would need some engineering design to be able to replace the step (some sort of fishplate across each cut). I met someone on a site in Devon last year who had his rear step folding down when not in use, but we were all in too much of a hurry for me to get a good look at what he had done.

Hi Stewart John,

Thanks for your experience on this.

Rgds

Mikebro  

Hi again Mikebro, 
that's a shame, tell me if the step was folded down the ground clearance must be compromised. and if it was lifted up the rear doors would not open. My friend has a 2001 Symbol with a step and that is bolted underneath to the chassis.

Best regards, Mike   

Note that some of the islands (e.g. Islay) have a 6.0m threshold (for some unknown reason) instead of 5.0m, even though it's the same company operating the ferry!

Hi again Mike,

The step on the one I saw in Devon folded down and then carried on so it was back on itself, if you see what I mean. So any reduction in ground clearance was minimal.

Regarding mine, I had another look this afternoon. Each angle bracket has one nut and bolt which goes through the vertical flange at the very bottom of the van's bodywork at its back. These two would be no problem to remove. But, also, the forward end of each angle bracket is bolted to the van's floor (underneath of course). The bolt threads, with the bracket and then the nut, are all one can get at from under the van. I'm hoping the bolts are welded in. I have decided to WD40 the threads, leave them overnight, then see if I can get the nuts off without the bolts going round. I think SWMBO would be OK with a portable step if I have to take the A/S one off completely, but I would still prefer to be able to refit it.

Best regards

Mikebro  

hi.we had the step removed on our van bcause of problems with replacing the rear crossmember for m o t.we left it off and use a folding step,no problems and with our models being fairly short any way we can park in some very tight spots.(very handy at times).g

Interestingly, I just recently looked up various fares on the Plymouth - Roscoff route.

Choosing a random day I entered different parameters.

With our 6mtr Nuevo, travel each way could be as little as £87 each making £348 in total.
If I ticked the box for a bike rack, the same fares rose to £137 - making £548 in total.
Both of these instances were clearly marked as the "...lowest fare...".

The clear message is, leave your bikes at home and buy new ones in France!

Derek

mikebro wrote:Our 2001 Symbol is 5.2m long, but only 5.0m without the rear step. The ferries we are looking at to get over to the isle of Mull later this year treat a motorhome of 5m or under as a car, with a substantial price hike for motorhomes between 5m and 8m long.

Are they really going to get a tape measure and measure?

PB

Yep they will! or they did to us when we went two or three years ago, only had  our little traffic then to.

After soaking the bolts with WD40 yesterday, today I was able to remove the two sets of nuts and bolts that go through the rear bodywork. I also can confirm that the bolts that go through the van floor are captive, so the nuts came off from below OK. So I can remove the step completely in about 20minutes. So, Mull here we come at the same price on the ferry as a car!! The difference will pay for a nice meal out.....(and no fibs about length of vehicle).

Rgds

Mikebro

Well done Mikebro, I wonder if the step will go back on. Enjoy your trip to Mull later in the year.

Best regards, Mike   

My rear step is part of the tow-bar set up & fixed by two large bolts, when at the port I carry 2 sockets & bars inside the back doors to whip it off in case I get challenged.

So far I have had no trouble but believe that they are starting to use lasers to measure vehicles.

You can also go to Mull on the Lochaline (Morvern) to Fishnish ferry which is about half the Oban ferry cost and you do not have to book. About a 20 minute crossing and they are very unlikely to be accurately measuring the length of your vehicle. A 5-day return is very good value, check on the Calmac website. Coincidentally we are taking that crossing later this week.
Best regards and enjoy Mull, Bob

Thanks for for giving the advice Bob, but could you do an intro in the Welcome Section ( we ask this of all new members - thanks)
73s

Yes Bob we will be using the Lochaline to Fishnish ferry. The 5m rule applies on this one. As you say, they may not bother to measure, but best to be sure. Have a good trip.

Rgds

Mikebro

Hi, Good campsite on Mull is Fidden, nr Fionnphort. It's on the beach. Great views, and not far from a good pub with good food. No hookup, though, if you really need elec. Posher site is at The Sheiling, Craignure. Good facilities, and just across the road from the Craignure Inn which has great food, and music!
Happy Hols!

My Fiat Ducato falls into the 5 metre bracket, including the tow bar. The tow bar mounted step has been removed because of fouling the A frame of our trailer which falls into the 4 metre bracket. We carry a racing car with the front nose removed, but with a couple of inches sticking out the back, tail pipe of exhaust system. We have been measured every time we arrive at Portsmouth on our annual trip to France.

redturner37 wrote:My Fiat Ducato falls into the 5 metre bracket, including the tow bar. The tow bar mounted step has been removed because of fouling the A frame of our trailer which falls into the 4 metre bracket. We carry a racing car with the front nose removed, but with a couple of inches sticking out the back, tail pipe of exhaust system. We have been measured every time we arrive at Portsmouth on our annual trip to France.

Umm.. the question was about van on the the ferry to Mull... the difference in cost for length was less that £30 return... I never did understand the question, even though the original poster was from Scotland. Why would one bother?



You are talking about a van + trailer going to France. What overall length is that? Why would you not be expecting to be measured?

Is it me? 

As the original poster on this subject - thanks to Norm and Val for their recommendations. We stayed at the Shieling which was a fine site and we had an enjoyable meal at the Craignuire Inn. For anybody else's information both the Corran and the Lochaline/Fishnish Ferries only charged our Symbol as a car, even with the rear step fitted (I decided not to bother removing it after the Corran Ferry had let us go as a car). Nobody measured the van on either ferry in either direction. To Peter Taylor I will just say that £30 is £30! (especially now we're retired).

Best Regards

Mikebro
(living in Scotland but English)

Pete Taylor wrote:

redturner37 wrote:My Fiat Ducato falls into the 5 metre bracket, including the tow bar. The tow bar mounted step has been removed because of fouling the A frame of our trailer which falls into the 4 metre bracket. We carry a racing car with the front nose removed, but with a couple of inches sticking out the back, tail pipe of exhaust system. We have been measured every time we arrive at Portsmouth on our annual trip to France.

Umm.. the question was about van on the the ferry to Mull... the difference in cost for length was less that £30 return... I never did understand the question, even though the original poster was from Scotland. Why would one bother?



You are talking about a van + trailer going to France. What overall length is that? Why would you not be expecting to be measured?

Is it me? 

5 + 4 = 9 mtrs. The post also mentioned the fact that he could be measured. there are always cars plus trailers on the dock, but very rarely do you see them being measured. I must look guilty of something when I get there...

Hi there,

When booking I always give the overall length of the rig and nothing else:

o  When towing a trailer it's 10m (6m + 4m) and because the bike-rack overhangs the trailer coupling I don't mention it at all.

o  When not towing the trailer I go for 6m and again don't mention the bike rack.

The length of "Petal" with towing hitch etc is OVER 5m; however, the length of "Petal" with bike rack is LESS than 6m.

If I put in 6m and a bike-rack I would be charged accordingly so I just ignore the bike-rack and, so far, I haven't had to pay any extra or even been challenged; but I ALWAYS carry a tape-measure in the driver's door! 

Hope this helps. 

Best regards,


PS

The check-in kiosk has a set of marks that tell the operator the approximate length of your vehicle.  They're no daft eh?

Actually; these days the check-in operator has instant access to your vehicle length, width and height from the DVLA website plus they, evidently, have a virtual weighbridge and dimensional scanners to see if you think that you are smarter than they are. If you are caught cheating you can forget any discounts you may have assumed from club-membership or early booking.
The digital age is up on us...

Dutto wrote:Hi there,

When booking I always give the overall length of the rig and nothing else:

o  When towing a trailer it's 10m (6m + 4m) and because the bike-rack overhangs the trailer coupling I don't mention it at all.

o  When not towing the trailer I go for 6m and again don't mention the bike rack.

The length of "Petal" with towing hitch etc is OVER 5m; however, the length of "Petal" with bike rack is LESS than 6m.

If I put in 6m and a bike-rack I would be charged accordingly so I just ignore the bike-rack and, so far, I haven't had to pay any extra or even been challenged; but I ALWAYS carry a tape-measure in the driver's door! 

Hope this helps. 

Best regards,


PS

The check-in kiosk has a set of marks that tell the operator the approximate length of your vehicle.  They're no daft eh?

Absolutely right, I give the overall length of the rig as 9 mtrs. The marks on the kiosks are plain to see from the window but maybe because of the perspective they cant quite work out where the rear end finishes so the get the tape out.....