Zig X-7 charger

Any suggestions??
We have a 1997 LWB Ford Transit based Duetto.

I have a problem with the Zig X-7 charger which I cannot fathom out.
The Zig displays its green charging light when switched on and it shows up on the charging indicator light on the Zig panel.

If the voltage is checked on the battery it shows no sign of increased voltage indicating a charge. Hmmm....

So I disconnect all the leads from the zig charger and put a meter a across the + and - terminals and it shows 14 plus volts so what is stopping it getting to the battery??

The supply leads from the battery go to a  box under the bonnet in which there is a 20 amp spade type fuse labelled caravan supply and fridge.

There are  to a couple of relays which I assume are something to do with towing lights as it has a towing hook.

So where can it possibly go wrong?
Listening out hopefully for a flash of brilliance from somebody out there


    Rodney

Hi Rodney.  

A little more info would be useful. Does the 12V system work from the leisure battery (i.e when not on hook up) and what voltage were you measuring on the battery? One way to double check that the Zig supply is missing would be to disconnect the battery and see if you get the Zig output across the disconnected terminals.

You’ll find the clubman wiring diagram almost identical. You can get a copy here (page 53).

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The reason I ask if the 12V system works is that the output from the Zig gets to the battery via a fuse and relay. Both of these components (and the connectors) can cause trouble but the supply from the battery also comes into the habitation area via the same components so if that is ok it’s unlikely to be these.

Do you know if it has ever worked since you had the van?  We have had an example where a Zig unit had been replaced and wired incorrectly (that one had us all going for a bit).

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Brod.

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If you read the thread at the link above you will find a very clear generic diagram of the relays and how they are wired.

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This circuit diagram is for coachbuilts on Ford around the age of your Duetto so should be similar.

Peter

brodco wrote:Hi Rodney.  

A little more info would be useful. Does the 12V system work from the leisure battery (i.e when not on hook up) and what voltage were you measuring on the battery? One way to double check that the Zig supply is missing would be to disconnect the battery and see if you get the Zig output across the disconnected terminals.

You’ll find the clubman wiring diagram almost identical. You can get a copy here (page 53).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The reason I ask if the 12V system works is that the output from the Zig gets to the battery via a fuse and relay. Both of these components (and the connectors) can cause trouble but the supply from the battery also comes into the habitation area via the same components so if that is ok it’s unlikely to be these.

Do you know if it has ever worked since you had the van?  We have had an example where a Zig unit had been replaced and wired incorrectly (that one had us all going for a bit).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Brod.

The system worked O.K. until late September this year.
 All the 12v accessories work fine with just the leisure battery and no mains charge.
The voltage at the battery at the moment is 12.66.
As far as I am aware it has never had a split charge to the van battery via the Zig
The alternator charges up the leisure battery O.K
The Zig used to push the battery up to about 13.8v before topping off

Thanks for your help
Obviously it is still work in progress

Rodney.

Hi Rodney   

rodcdm wrote:All the 12v accessories work fine with just the leisure battery and no mains charge

OK so the battery powered 12V is good. The next question would be does the 12V system work with the leisure battery disconnected and the hook up connected?

The 12V battery input to the habitation electrics and the Zig output should go to the same point, so if both the leisure battery and Zig unit power the van independently there has to be something weird going on in the wiring.

On my van the junction is on the Zig terminals themselves so it’s worth checking that you have 13V or so on both + connectors on the Zig.

I’d suggest proving that the Zig unit is powering the van before going any further.  While you’re doing so I would suggest “wiggling” the output leads on the Zig in case there is something intermittent there.


Brod.

I have had a 1999 Duetto fitted with the Zig X-7 power unit and had a situation similar to rodcdm. The problem was that the Zig unit had failed, it showed an output voltage when off-load, but as soon as it was connected to anything, the output dropped-off. This would explain why rodcdm's battery is not charging.

As a simple test, connect a headlamp bulb across the + and - of the Zig whilst it is disconnected from all the van wiring and see if the bulb lights up as it should (a test meter will show voltage, but not the ability of the unit to supply any real power).

Another test with the Zig connected and everything switched off, is to disconnect the +ve lead from the habitation battery under the bonnet, wait 20 minutes and reconnect it. If you get a 'splash' of sparks from the terminal, the Zig has most probably failed (the 'splash' is caused by capacitors in the Zig charging and does not indicate a heavy permanent load).

The above suggestions / ideas are worth a try and will, if nothing else eliminate a possible cause of the problem.

Hi   

Spospe wrote: the Zig unit had failed, it showed an output voltage when off-load, but as soon as it was connected to anything, the output dropped-off. This would explain why rodcdm's battery is not charging. .

My thinking as well.  It’s always best to test a power supply output on load.

Spospe wrote: As a simple test, connect a headlamp bulb across the + and - of the Zig whilst it is disconnected from all the van wiring and see if the bulb lights up as it should (a test meter will show voltage, but not the ability of the unit to supply any real power).

Yes but just running the lights etc. from the hook up with the battery disconnected will do (almost) the same thing and will also prove that the Zig is physically connected to the control unit.  I suppose which is easier depends on whether the Zig unit is still disconnected or not.

Admittedly if it doesn't work (and I bet it doesn't) you'd then have to test the Zig on it's own to check if it's the unit or the wiring.

Brod.

Thanks to Brodco and Spospe.
I have now taken the negative battery lead to Vehicle chassis earth off.
Cleaned the contact area and remade the copper cable connection to the battery clamp.
The Zig showed the same symptoms as Spospe suggested and after powering the zig up disconnecting +VE and waiting then reconnectiong it did flash as suggested.
It is all pointing to a failed Zig.
All the suggestions have been very helpful
Thanks

Rodcdm

Sadly the Zig X-7 unit does seem to be fault prone (I had to change mine).


Another diagnostic test you can do, is to visually inspect a resistor on the circuit board in the X-7 and that is R48, which is a 3watt 68ohm carbon resistor. If this resistor is burnt, you have a faulty Zig, but I am not 100% sure if replacing it will fix the fault (i.e. I don't know if the resistor being burnt is the fault, or just the symptom of the fault).


For replacement Zig units, have a look at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] or do a search on eBay.


Good luck!

I also have a Duetto with a Zig 3 unit but the battery charger element of it is 'kaput'!!! I was thinking of fitting a Ctec 5 or 7 permanently to keep the 2nd battery charged on EHU. Will this work and will it keep the battery charged when using the 12v facilities? Everything else on 12v works fine from the Zig unit.

iceman wrote:I also have a Duetto with a Zig 3 unit but the battery charger element of it is 'kaput'!!! I was thinking of fitting a Ctec 5 or 7 permanently to keep the 2nd battery charged on EHU. Will this work and will it keep the battery charged when using the 12v facilities? Everything else on 12v works fine from the Zig unit.

I am not sure about this idea. The CTEC chargers are just that, they are chargers, not power units and I suspect they will try and drive the 12 volt supply up to 14.7 volts (maximum voltage of a "12 volt" battery). This relatively high voltage may well damage sensitive equipment.

Best ask CTEC for their advice.

Ctec's website says that the battery can be maintained at 13.4 volts in supply mode and as I only want to keep the battery constantly charged, as it would be if the charging element on the Zig unit was in working order, surely this would be okay and not send too high a voltage to any of the equipment. My problem is that I don't really want to spend £130 on a replacement Zig unit when I can get a Ctec  battery charger for 69 euros to do the same job as the battery charger element on the existing unit. Advice needed. Thanks.

It is important to match the power supply (charger) to its designed functionality and loading requirements.

There are some clever power supply systems in modern vans but in yours it is simply a float charge system. When on hook up the power supply provides the power to the habitation apparatus and maintains the charge of the battery. When the habitation electrics are off then the power supply is able to slowly re-charge the battery.

The float voltage for flooded cells is 13.4v so the CTEC charger you mention would be ok IF fixed in supply mode but it would also need to be able to supply the maximum current your habitation electrics draw - maybe up to 15 amps. If it cant the leisure battery will discharge even when the power supply is on.

If you accidentally operate the CTEC unit in charge mode it is possible to damage habitation control circuitry.

My personal choice would to be install a unit designed for caravan/motorhome power supply use.

Peter

i agree with Peter.However the cetec 5 will give a max of 5 amps.So you could use it and watch your usage.
More than 5 amps being used would be discharging the battery.60 watts maximum.
So you could manage with you controlling your output.
regards

mike.

Have decided to go with the Ctec MXS5 as I normally use very little amps when on site and hooked up.Thanks for all the advice. Great site as usual.